[Advaita-l] Karma for a spiritual aspirant - A Chatgpt dialogue and a few inputs from Shankara

[V Subrahmanian]

No Conflict, Only Completion: Where Veda Meets Vedanta

(Anirudh's clarifies with his Guru, on conversation)

Anirudh: Guruji, something has been troubling me. I hear many people say
that the Upanishads oppose the rituals of the Vedas. That Vedanta dismisses
Karma Kaanda. Is this true? Do Vedas and Vedanta really contradict each
other?

Guru: (smiling gently) Ah, the old illusion of contradiction — born not
from truth, but from partial understanding. No, my dear Anirudh, there is
no conflict. What you are perceiving is a misunderstanding rooted in
impatience and haste.

Anirudh: But then why does the Gita say things like ‘ Traygunya vishaya
vedah…’ — that the Vedas deal with the three gunas and that one must
transcend them.

Guru: Good that you noticed. Krishna indeed says that. But whom is He
addressing? Arjuna — a warrior in the thick of battle, already ripe with
detachment, ready to hear the deeper truths. The Gita’s message isn’t a
rejection of karma, but its transcendence. You don’t abandon the boat
before crossing the river.

Anirudh: So you're saying karma prepares us for Vedanta?

Guru: Precisely. Think of it like a staircase. Karma is the first step. It
purifies the mind, disciplines the senses, and reduces ego. Upasana, or
devotion and inner contemplation, is the middle landing. Then comes Vedanta
— the highest flight, where the Self is realised. But can one leap to the
top without climbing the first steps?

Anirudh: That makes sense. But many modern seekers say, ‘Why perform
yajnas? Why chant mantras or study the Brahmanas? Let me jump to the
Upanishads — that’s where the truth is!’

Guru: That is like someone learning poetry without knowing the alphabet.
The Vedas were never meant to be read selectively. The Upanishads
themselves are the concluding parts of the Veda — not replacements. The
karma portions are there because they address the level at which we begin
our journey: as embodied beings in a tangible world.

Anirudh: But Guruji, what about jnanis — realised beings who no longer
perform rituals? Doesn’t that prove karma is unnecessary?

Guru: Jnanis has crossed the river. They no longer need the boat — but they
don’t curse it either. A true jnani respects karma because it helped him
reach the shore. Even his silence, his very presence, becomes a yajna. He
uplifts the world, not through rituals but through his being.

Anirudh: And what about those who see rituals as mere mechanical acts —
without feeling or devotion?

Guru: That is a real problem. The Taittiriya Kaathaka Prashna says — one
who lights the yajna fire but doesn't feel the presence of the divine is
like someone who cooks rice without water. The fire is there, but the rice
remains raw. Rituals without surrender and bhava are like flowers without
fragrance.

Anirudh: So, are rituals meant only for householders, not sanyasis or
renunciates?

Guru: Each person walks according to their stage. For grihasthas
(householders), karma is both duty and means to purify. For vanaprasthas
and sannyasis, karma gives way to contemplation. The Veda provides paths
for all. But skipping stages out of arrogance or laziness is what the Gita
criticises.

Anirudh: I see now. Even Krishna wasn’t condemning karma — He was
condemning stagnation in karma.

Guru: Well said! He criticised those who perform karmas only for worldly
results — for Swarga or pleasure. That’s like planting a tree and plucking
the leaves, ignoring the fruit. But He never dismissed yajna itself. In
fact, He says yajna sustains the cosmic order — yajnaad bhavati parjanyah!

Anirudh: Then what about people who perform karma their whole life but
never reach jnana?

Guru: If karma is done with attachment and desire, it binds. If done with
surrender and no expectation — it becomes a ladder. When the mind becomes
calm, the ego melts, and jnana arises naturally. The Upanishads blossom
from such soil.

Anirudh: Guruji, this is giving me so much clarity. But I’ve heard even
devatas dislike jnanis. Is that true?

Guru: That comes from the Brihadaranyaka. The devatas prefer those who feed
them through yajnas. A jnani, having realised the Self, no longer seeks
favors — so he stops offerings. The devatas feel neglected. But that’s a
symbolic way of saying: the jnani has outgrown even the need for divine
reward.

Anirudh: So what should a sincere seeker like me do now?

Guru: Start with where you are. Perform karma sincerely — but let each
action be an offering to the Lord. Read the Upanishads — but with
reverence, not pride. Know that karma is not the enemy of Vedanta — it is
its womb. And when jnana dawns, karma will fall away by itself, like the
husk from ripened grain.

Anirudh: Guruji, this changes everything. I used to look down on ritual.
Now I see — karma is sacred. It is the path. It is my preparation.

Guru: Walk it with love, my child. Let karma purify you. Let jnana awaken
you. And when both dissolve, you will know — there was never a conflict.
Only stages on a single, luminous path.

🙏🙌🙏


Someone made a remark:  A good part of Śaṁkara Advaita has a troubled
relationship with karma-kāṇḍa.

And my reply:

Namaste

I am not sure what you mean by that remark about 'a troubled relationship
with karma-kāṇḍa.'.

Here are some of the many statements from Shankara about the karma kānḍa:

Sādhana-Pañcakam: “Five Verses on Spiritual

1. वेदो नित्यमधीयतां तदुदितं कर्म स्वनुष्ठीयतां
तेनेशस्य विधीयतामपचिति: काम्ये मतिस्त्यज्यताम् ।

पापौघ: परिधूयतां भवसुखे दोषोऽनुसन्धीयतां

आत्मेच्छा व्यवसीयतां निजगृहात् तूर्णं विनिर्गम्यताम् ॥ १

Study spiritual texts (“Vedas”) regularly and put into practice their
teachings. Worship the Divine in that manner and give up the thought of
desires. Wash away the cascading fruits of bad karma and examine the
defects of worldly excitement. Hold on to the awareness of the Ātman and
let go of your limited identity. (1)

And we have the famous statement: चित्तस्य शुद्धये कर्म...in the
Vivekachudamani.

2.  न हि शास्त्रविहितं किञ्चिदकर्तव्यतामियात् ।  Nothing that the śāstra
enjoins is to be shunned. Iśāvāsya upaniṣad bhāṣya.

From the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad bhashya:

3. कर्मकाण्डप्रामाण्यविघातकृत् उपनिषद्वाक्यमिति, तन्न, अन्यार्थत्वात् ।
 The Upanishad does not uproot the authority of the karma kānḍa as the
domains of the two are different.


4.   ‘किञ्ज्योतिरयं पुरुषः’ (बृ. उ. ४ । ३ । २)
इत्येवमादिषष्ठप्रपाठकविहितायामेतस्यां ब्रह्मविद्यायाम् एवंफलायाम्
काम्यैकदेशवर्जितं कृत्स्नं कर्मकाण्डं तादर्थ्येन विनियुज्यते ; तत्
कथमित्युच्यते — तमेतम् एवंभूतमौपनिषदं पुरुषम् , वेदानुवचनेन
मन्त्रब्राह्मणाध्ययनेन नित्यस्वाध्यायलक्षणेन, विविदिषन्ति वेदितुमिच्छन्ति ;
के ? ब्राह्मणाः ; ब्राह्मणग्रहणमुपलक्षणार्थम् ; अविशिष्टो हि अधिकारः
त्रयाणां वर्णानाम् ; अथवा कर्मकाण्डेन मन्त्रब्राह्मणेन वेदानुवचनेन
विविदिषन्ति ; कथं विविदिषन्तीत्युच्यते — यज्ञेनेत्यादि ॥

Again, the indispensability of the karma kanda to the engendering the
thirst for Self-knowledge is emphasized in the above.

5. एवं काम्यवर्जितं नित्यं कर्मजातं सर्वम् आत्मज्ञानोत्पत्तिद्वारेण
मोक्षसाधनत्वं प्रतिपद्यते ; एवं कर्मकाण्डेन अस्य एकवाक्यतावगतिः ।  When the
enjoined karma is performed eschewing the kāmya karma, it results in being
the means to mukti through generating Self-knowledge. Thus the Jnana kanda
has ekavākyatā with karma kanda. (The karma kanda dovetails into the jnana
kanda)

6. There is a Brahma sutra सर्वापेक्षा च यज्ञादिश्रुतेरश्ववत् ॥ २६ ॥
 3.4.26 which establishes the indispensable connection between the karma
kanda and jnana kanda.

7. विहितत्वादेव ‘तमेतं वेदानुवचनेन ब्राह्मणा विविदिषन्ति’ इत्यादिना;
तदुक्तम् — ‘सर्वापेक्षा च यज्ञादिश्रुतेरश्ववत्’ (ब्र. सू. ३ । ४ । २६)
 Shankara says in the Brahma sutra bhashya 3.4.33

8. There is the Bh.Gita verse too: ‘यज्ञो दानं तपश्चैव पावनानि मनीषिणाम्’
(भ. गी. १८ । ५)

9.  Kenopanishad bhashyam introduction:

  ‘देवयाजी श्रेयानात्मयाजी वा’इत्युपक्रम्य ‘आत्मयाजी तु करोतीदं मेऽनेनाङ्गं
संस्क्रियते’ इति संस्कारार्थमेव कर्माणीति वाजसनेयके ; ‘महायज्ञैश्च यज्ञैश्च
ब्राह्मीयं क्रियते तनुः । ’ (मनु. २ । २८)‘यज्ञो दानं तपश्चैव पावनानि
मनीषिणाम्’ (भ. गी. १८ । ५) इत्यादिस्मृतेश्च ।
To summarize, in the Sānkaran Advaita the Veda-enjoined karma is
indispensable for someone who wants to attain self-knowledge and through
that, liberation.  There is thus absolutely no room for the thinking  //A
good part of Śaṁkara Advaita has a troubled relationship with karma-kāṇḍa.//