[Advaita-l] ***UNCHECKED*** Re: RE: Re: [advaitin] apauruSheyatva of the Veda

[H S Chandramouli]

Namaste.

Reg Bhashya reference on the topic of apauruSheyatva of vedAs, following
from TUB is relevant. The term *nitya* is used in place of *apauruSheya*.

TUB, Anandavalli, AnuvAka 3

//  ‘त्रिः प्रथमामन्वाह त्रिरुत्तमाम्’ इति ऋगावृत्तिः श्रूयते । तत्र ऋचः
अविषयत्वे तद्विषयस्मृत्यावृत्त्या मन्त्रावृत्तौ च क्रियमाणायाम् ‘त्रिः
प्रथमामन्वाह’ इति ऋगावृत्तिर्मुख्योऽर्थश्चोदितः परित्यक्तः स्यात् ।
तस्मान्मनोवृत्त्युपाधिपरिच्छिन्नं मनोवृत्तिनिष्ठमात्मचैतन्यमनादिनिधनं
यजुःशब्दवाच्यम् आत्मविज्ञानं मन्त्रा इति । एवं च नित्यत्वोपपत्तिर्वेदानाम् ।
अन्यथाविषयत्वे रूपादिवदनित्यत्वं च स्यात् ; नैतद्युक्तम् । ‘सर्वे वेदा
यत्रैकं भवन्ति स मानसीन आत्मा’ इति च श्रुतिः नित्यात्मनैकत्वं ब्रुवन्ती
ऋगादीनां नित्यत्वे समञ्जसा स्यात् । //

//  ‘triH prathamAmanvAha triruttamAm’ iti RRigAvRRittiH shrUyate | tatra
RRichaH aviShayatve tadviShayasmRRityAvRRittyA mantrAvRRittau cha
kriyamANAyAm ‘triH prathamAmanvAha’ iti RRigAvRRittirmukhyo.arthashchoditaH
parityaktaH syAt | tasmAnmanovRRittyupAdhiparichChinnaM
manovRRittiniShThamAtmachaitanyamanAdinidhanaM yajuHshabdavAchyam
Atmavij~nAnaM mantrA iti | evaM cha nityatvopapattirvedAnAm |
anyathAviShayatve rUpAdivadanityatvaM cha syAt ; naitadyuktam | ‘sarve vedA
yatraikaM bhavanti sa mAnasIna AtmA’ iti cha shrutiH nityAtmanaikatvaM
bruvantI RRigAdInAM nityatve sama~njasA syAt | //

Translation by Swami Gambhirananda  //  The repetition of Rg-mantra is
enjoined in the text., “The first Rg-mantra is to be repeated thrice and
the last Rg-mantra is to be repeated thrice.”

That being so, if the Rg-mantras themselves be not made the objects of
repetition, and if the repetition of their memory be undertaken, the
repetition of the Rg-mantra, in the primary sense, that is enjoined in
‘"the first Rg-mantra is to be repeated thrice”, will be discarded. Hence
the mantras called Yajuh  are (in the last analysis) nothing but the
Consciousness of the Self that is identical with the beginningless and
endless Self lodged in and conditioned by the mental functions that act as
Its limiting adjuncts. Thus is the etemality of the Vedas justifiable.
Else, if they are objects like colour etc., they will be impermanent. Nor
is that right. And the Vedic text, “Where all the Vedas get united is the
Self in the mind” , which declares the identity of the Rg-mantras etc.,
with the eternal Self, can be reconciled only if the mantras are eternal //.
Regards

On Tue, Mar 5, 2024 at 2:40 AM Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Namaste Bhaskar ji,
>
> As you said, Shankaracharya says that the meaning of the terms itihAsa,
> purANa, vidyA, upaniShad, Sloka, sUtra, vyAkhyA, anuvyAkhyA all refer to
> various parts of the Veda only.
>
> We don't have to consider ourselves with what non advaitins are saying when
> the bhAShyakAra is so clearly saying that the other terms refer to various
> parts of the Veda only - you have argued for the sanctity of only the
> bhAShya when reviewing and dismissing the works of other AchAryas within
> advaita sampradAya, why should the same not be extended here also, when
> dismissing what non advaitins have to say?
>
> Shankaracharya has said -
>
> किं तन्निश्वसितमिव ततो जातमित्युच्यते — यदृग्वेदो यजुर्वेदः
> सामवेदोऽथर्वाङ्गिरसः - चतुर्विधं मन्त्रजातम् , इतिहास इति, उर्वशीपुरूरवसोः
> संवादादिः — ‘उर्वशी हाप्सराः’ (शत. ब्रा. ११ । ५ । १ । १) इत्यादि
> ब्राह्मणमेव, पुराणम् — ‘असद्वा इदमग्र आसीत्’ (तै. उ. २ । ७ । १) इत्यादि,
> विद्या देवजनविद्या — वेदः सोऽयम् — इत्याद्या, उपनिषदः ‘प्रियमित्येतदुपासीत’
> (बृ. उ. ४ । १ । ३) इत्याद्याः, श्लोकाः ब्राह्मणप्रभवा मन्त्राः ‘तदेते
> श्लोकाः’ (बृ. उ. ४ । ४ । ८) इत्यादयः, सूत्राणि वस्तुसङ्ग्रहवाक्यानि वेदे
> यथा — ‘आत्मेत्येवोपासीत’ (बृ. उ. १ । ४ । ७) इत्यादीनि, अनुव्याख्यानानि
> मन्त्रविवरणानि, व्याख्यानान्यर्थवादाः, अथवा
> वस्तुसङ्ग्रहवाक्यविवरणान्यनुव्याख्यानानि — यथा चतुर्थाध्याये
> ‘आत्मेत्येवोपासीत’ (बृ. उ. १ । ४ । ७) इत्यस्य यथा वा
> ‘अन्योऽसावन्योऽहमस्मीति न स वेद यथा पशुरेवं’ (बृ. उ. १ । ४ । १०) इत्यस्य
> अयमेवाध्यायशेषः, मन्त्रविवरणानि व्याख्यानानि — एवमष्टविधं ब्राह्मणम् ।
>
> *एवं मन्त्रब्राह्मणयोरेव ग्रहणम् ; नियतरचनावतो विद्यमानस्यैव
> वेदस्याभिव्यक्तिः पुरुषनिश्वासवत् , न च पुरुषबुद्धिप्रयत्नपूर्वकः ; अतः
> प्रमाणं निरपेक्ष एव स्वार्थे ; तस्मात् यत् तेनोक्तं तत्तथैव प्रतिपत्तव्यम्
> ,* आत्मनः श्रेय इच्छद्भिः, ज्ञानं वा कर्म वेति ।
>
> Swami Madhavananda's translation -
>
> What are those things that are spoken of as issuing from It as Its breath?
> The Rg- Veda, Yajur-Veda, Sama-Veda, Atharvāngirasa, i.e. the four kinds of
> Mantras.
>
> 1) History (itihAsa), such as the dialogue between Urvasi and Purūravas
> 'The nymph Urvasi,' and so on (§. XI. iv. 4. 1); it is this Brāhmaṇa that
> is meant.
>
> 2) Mythology (purANa), such as, 'This universe was in the beginning
> unmanifest,' etc. (Tai. II. 7).
>
> 3) Arts (vidyA), which treat of music, dancing, etc.- 'This is also Veda,'
> etc. (S. XIII. iv. 3. 10-14).
>
> 4) Upanisads (upaniShad), such as, 'It should be meditated upon as. dear,'
> etc. (IV. 1. 3).
>
> 5) Verses (Sloka), the Mantras occurring in the Brahmaņas, such as,
> 'Regarding this there are the following verses' (IV. iii. II; IV. iv. 8).
>
> 6) Aphorisms (sUtra), those passages of the Vedas which present the truth
> in a nutshell, for example,. 'The Self alone is to be meditated upon' (I.
> iv. 7).
>
> 7) Elucidations-of the Mantras. (anuvyAkhyA)
>
> 8) Explanations (vyAkhyA), eulogistic passages.
>
> Or 'elucidations' (anuvyAkhyA) may be of the 'aphorisms' above. As the
> passage, 'The Self alone is to be meditated upon,' or the passage, 'He (who
> worships another god thinking), "He is one, and I am another," does not
> know. He is like an animal (to the gods)' (I. iv. 10), has this concluding
> portion of the present chapter as its elucidation.
>
> And 'explanations' (vyAkhyA) may be of the Mantras. Thus these are the
> eight divisions of the Brāhmaṇas.
>
> *So only the Mantras and Brāhmaṇas are meant.(1) It is the eternally
> composed and already existent Vedas that are manifested like a man's
> breath--without any thought or effort on his part. Hence they are an
> authority as regards their meaning, independently of any other means of
> knowledge. *Therefore those who aspire after well-being must accept the
> verdict of the Vedas on knowledge or on rites, as it is.
>
> (1) And not the popular meanings of those eight terms.
>
>
> Regards,
> Venkatraghavan
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, 4 Mar 2024, 18:44 Bhaskar YR via Advaita-l, <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
> > In fact Vedas were breath of the Brahman
> >
> > praNAms
> > Hare Krishna
> >
> > ItihAsa, purANa, shloka, vyAkhyAna, anuvyAkhyAna also included along with
> > Rig, Yajur, sAma and atharvAgirasa as paramAtma's exhalation in br.
> Shruti
> > (2-4-10), though bhAshyakAra clarifies this (itihAsa, purANa etc.) is
> > within shruti, commentaries vary within theistic darshana.  Since brahman
> > is the source of all, he is not only the source of mere veda-s but for
> the
> > whole world so  itihAsa, purAna, vyAkhyAna, anuvyAkhyAna also he is the
> > only source and there is no problem in accepting this. So goes some other
> > observations.  And  Some other commentaries treating itihAsa pUrAna in
> its
> > popular meaning only i..e paurusheya pUrAna (vyAsa virachita) etc. since
> > vyAsa is vishNu avatAra etc.  Another declaration that he is vedAnta krut
> > (15-15) from geeta also  subject to different interpretation among
> > different theistic schools i.e. Astika sampradaya to be precise.  So
> going
> > by the original source of these texts we cannot establish anything
> > authoritatively and again we have to depend on paurus
> >  heya commentaries (which is in all probability limited to respective
> > commentator's capability of understanding of these texts and its
> > articulation) on it to prove one or the other.
> >
> > Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
> > bhaskar
> >
> >
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