[Advaita-l] ***UNCHECKED*** Re: [advaitin] Understanding Srimad Bhagavad Gita from the perspectives of Visishtadvaita and Advaita - an exposition

[suresh srinivasamurthy]

Namaste Sri Subbu-ji,

<
The liberated do not travel to any other place/loka, for any such travel will imply that the jiva is still in samsara. Since Brahman is infinite, the jnani who has realized his identity with Brahman, also being the Infinite Brahman alone, does not go anywhere upon death.  For, Brahman is not a finite place to be reached/attained.  If Brahman were located in a place then Brahman, being no different from any formed object, will have to have a beginning and end, and be dependent on something else, be made of parts, and ephemeral, and a produced one.  Brahman can never be of this nature.  Thus, the ‘attainment’ of Brahman cannot be involving any locating in some other place.

The position of the VA on this matter cannot be compromised. Hence on this crucial issue there can't be a reconciliation between the two systems.
>

Personally, I agree with Vikram-ji and think that reconciliation is possible and infact it is already there though it is not openly accepted by staunch followers :)

This is because Brahman is accepted as the Self in VA also which is all pervading and so not limited to any particular place. Vishnu is accepted as jnAnamaya and antaryAmi Atma (Self) and oneness among all the infinite forms of Vishnu is accepted in Dvaita also. In all traditions, Brahman is always the indwelling sarvAtma / paramAtma (universal Self) and is never anAtma. Existence of jagat as Brahma shareera is acceptable to Sri Shankara as per the Prashnopanishad 6-8 bhashya and Jagatshareeratva of Brahman does not limit the infinite nature of Brahman and helps to establish sanatanatva of dharma and guru-shishya parampara which is common across all sampradaya. Sri Ramanuja also accepts validity of moksha in the form of kaivalya.

Though "going to Vaikunta" loka and serving the Lord is widely accepted in VA, there is another level of realization where the Lord alone is seen and nothing else. Vaikunta is also the name of the Lord and so the "travel" of mukta jiva to attain the Lord is not physical but an inward "spiritual journey" which could be interpreted as constant experience/darshan of the Lord in such a way that nothing else is seen. Sri TiruppAnAlvar describes this in his AmalanAdipiran prabandham as "Yennamudinai kanda kangal mattondrun kAnAve". ( Having seen my beloved Lord my eyes are not seeing anything ). Though this is not the same as Advaitic realization it is still very close.

Brahman is accepted as the paramAtma / SarvAtma in all sampradAya and shareerAtma bheda between jagat and Brahman/Self is also very experiential. So, I would consider that as a common ground that essentially reconciles all traditional views. IMHO all different traditions compliment each other and helps to experience Truth/Brahman in different ways. All differences are only superficial.

Namaste,
Suresh

________________________________
From: advaitin at googlegroups.com <advaitin at googlegroups.com> on behalf of V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2024 7:55 AM
To: advaitin at googlegroups.com <advaitin at googlegroups.com>
Cc: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] ***UNCHECKED*** Re: [advaitin] Understanding Srimad Bhagavad Gita from the perspectives of Visishtadvaita and Advaita - an exposition



On Fri, Jan 26, 2024 at 12:27 PM Vikram Jagannathan <vikkyjagan at gmail.com<mailto:vikkyjagan at gmail.com>> wrote:
Namaskaram Shri Subbu ji,

Agreeing on the difference. I will defer to Shri Krishna Kashyap ji for sharing more details on SriVaikunta at maha-pralaya. I have heard some conflicting theories and would rather withhold my opinion due to lack of clarity & understanding.

Yes, long ago I had arrived at this conclusion:  How does advaita view the other two schools? The answer is: The sadhana involving strong vairagyam towards the world and pure devotion to Bhagavan alone that is seen in the other two schools will mean to the Advaitin that they will go to Brahma loka.  The idea that they will get Advaita jnanam there will not be accepted by them but the Advaitin would place the Smarta sagunopasaka in line with the sadhakas of the other two schools. The sagunopasaka of Advaita also reaches Brahma loka.  Up till this the sadhakas of the other schools can be accommodated in Advaita's krama mukti path.

In Advaitasiddhi there is a section where the forms and lokas of Bhagavan have been considered and finally concluded that these are not absolutely real and eternal.  There the commentary Laghuchandrika says that 'there is no pramana for the existence of an uncreated a-bautika (non-elemental) vaikuntha.'

warm regards
subbu



However, the point I am trying to communicate is that the Advaita concept of krama-mukti is aligned with VA at least until the maha-pralaya state and therefore there should not be any reason for Visishtadvaitins for a conflict or criticism on this point of moksha marga against Advaita. In other words, from VA’s perspective, Advaita does not stand against VA at least until maha-pralaya. Of course Advaita goes a step further in the form of sadyo-mukti, but this should ideally not be a valid topic of criticism either since VA doesn’t believe in this concept or its logic to begin with.

with humble prostrations,
Vikram


On Fri, Jan 26, 2024 at 12:12 AM V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com<mailto:v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>> wrote:
Dear Vikram ji,

The krama mukti of Advaita involves getting the Advaita aham brahmasmi jnanam in that Brahma loka and remaining there till maha pralaya when that loka also will perish upon which the jivas there who are Jnanis, will become videha muktas as per advaita.  The position of VA is that in that ultimate scenario the muktas will be in Vaikuntha, with individual identities. This is because jiva-jiva and jiva-Ishwara bheda is absolutely real in VA.

warm regards
subbu




--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "advaitin" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to advaitin+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com<mailto:advaitin+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/CAKk0Te3tw0cyDoOcdz%3Df3O35ss45_wOQinBaRMUnFMXq7786%3DA%40mail.gmail.com<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/CAKk0Te3tw0cyDoOcdz%3Df3O35ss45_wOQinBaRMUnFMXq7786%3DA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "advaitin" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to advaitin+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com<mailto:advaitin+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/CAM7AOLdSX8qtTHhy9jycwkV03V4sfvPfwyLqJViAzyEG-g6qMg%40mail.gmail.com<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/CAM7AOLdSX8qtTHhy9jycwkV03V4sfvPfwyLqJViAzyEG-g6qMg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "advaitin" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to advaitin+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com<mailto:advaitin+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/CAKk0Te08_duqR7KANzuPR8X40-t7Fsu9xUXwBLCUsVWrm3i0rQ%40mail.gmail.com<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/CAKk0Te08_duqR7KANzuPR8X40-t7Fsu9xUXwBLCUsVWrm3i0rQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.