[Advaita-l] avidyA and mind in samAdhi

[Sudhanshu Shekhar]

Namaste V Subramanian ji.

Many thanks for the patient reply.

//They are the same.//

I am unable to understand as to how can mUlAvidyA be absent in samAdhi? It
cannot vanish in thin air. Like mind merges in avidyA in sushupti and comes
back in waking, it should merge into something, if it were to come back
post-samAdhi.

Since leshAvidyA continues even after culmination of akhandAkArA-vritti,
can it be said that the absence of tattva-agrahaNa-rUpA-avidyA in samAdhi
is basically merger thereof in leshAvidyA?

//Tattva agrahana rupa avidya is not there since the akhandAkAra vritti is
accepted. This is AtmA/BrahmakAra vritti.In its presence 'I do not know the
Self' kind of ignorance can't coexist. That is the purport of the
Panchadashi verse and the commentary.//

True. But being the fundamental entity, it cannot spring back from
non-existence. Can it?

//The causal seed is not completely destroyed in the case of the need for
more akhandAkAra vritti sessions. Such a situation is admitted by Shankara
in the BSB 4.1.2:

यस्य तु न एषोऽनुभवो द्रागिव जायते, तं प्रति अनुभवार्थ एव आवृत्त्यभ्युपगमः ।
तत्रापि न तत्त्वमसिवाक्यार्थात् प्रच्याव्य आवृत्तौ प्रवर्तयेत् ।  For such
of those aspirants such an experience has not occurred instantaneously, the
need for reiteration is required for generating that experience...//

Yes. I am talking of this situation only. If causal seed (other than
leshAvidyA which is destroyed only on death) is not destroyed, it has to
merge somewhere and come back. Isn't it?

Moreover, if mind is there in samAdhi; isn't mUlAvidyA (other than
leshAvidyA) stands posited ipso facto!!

Regards.




On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 12:24 PM V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 11:33 AM Sudhanshu Shekhar <
> sudhanshu.iitk at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Namaste V Subramanian ji.
>>
>> 1. Is there a difference between kAraNa sharIra and mUlAvidyA?
>>
>
> Namaste.
>
> They are the same.
>
>>
>> 2. If many sessions of nirvikalpaka samAdhi are needed for destruction of
>> mUlAvidyA, let us talk about the initial few sessions. If
>> tattva-agrahaNa-rUpA avidyA is not there, then how does it come back after
>> samAdhi? It is the basic seed. It cannot merge into something and come
>> back, like mind merges in avidyA in sushupti and comes back during waking
>> and dream.
>>
>
> Tattva agrahana rupa avidya is not there since the akhandAkAra vritti is
> accepted. This is AtmA/BrahmakAra vritti.In its presence 'I do not know the
> Self' kind of ignorance can't coexist. That is the purport of the
> Panchadashi verse and the commentary.
>
>>
>> 3. LeshAvidyA remains post jnAna is completely accepted. I was trying to
>> understand about other AkArAs of mUlAvidyA. If the causal seed is not there
>> in samAdhi, how will it come back!
>>
>
> The causal seed is not completely destroyed in the case of the need for
> more akhandAkAra vritti sessions. Such a situation is admitted by Shankara
> in the BSB 4.1.2:
>
> यस्य तु न एषोऽनुभवो द्रागिव जायते, तं प्रति अनुभवार्थ एव
> आवृत्त्यभ्युपगमः । तत्रापि न तत्त्वमसिवाक्यार्थात् प्रच्याव्य आवृत्तौ
> प्रवर्तयेत् ।  For such of those aspirants such an experience has not
> occurred instantaneously, the need for reiteration is required for
> generating that experience...
>
> regards
> subbu
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 10:05 AM V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Sudhanshu ji,
>>>
>>> On this //Actually, it is saying, there is no "appearance" of sushupti
>>> (avidyA) in samAdhi and NOT "there is no sushupti (avidyA) in samAdhi".//
>>>
>>> We can see that the commentary, following the verses, is delineating on
>>> the vyaavrtti - anuvritti logic. It says: तेषु परस्परं
>>> व्यावर्त्यमानेष्वपि... this effectively is the 'absence' of the two of the
>>> three bodies in a given state. Therefore in Samadhi the kAraNa shrira,
>>> sleep, is not there.  But the Atman is there in all states.  As pointed out
>>> earlier, the tattva agrahana rUpa avidyA is not there in akhandakaravritti.
>>> That one will have to have many more such sessions in order to become a
>>> sthita prajna is not denied. That is another matter. By definition the
>>> samadhi as spoken of by Swami Vidyaranya in the cited verse is a situation
>>> where that basic avidya is not there.  That the lesha avidya that is
>>> required to bring him out of samadhi and continue in vyavahara, till death,
>>> is admitted and you have acknowledged that as well.
>>>
>>> regards
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 15, 2023 at 3:02 PM Sudhanshu Shekhar <
>>> sudhanshu.iitk at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Namaste V Subramanian ji,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the reply.
>>>>
>>>> I went through the Panchadashi shloka and the tIkA thereupon.
>>>>
>>>> //Here he says 'In Samadhi there is no Sushupti but Atman is present.
>>>> This is anvaya. The vyatireka is: when Atman is shining, sushupti is not
>>>> present. //
>>>>
>>>> Actually, it is saying, there is no "appearance" of sushupti (avidyA)
>>>> in samAdhi and NOT "there is no sushupti (avidyA) in samAdhi".
>>>>
>>>> The non-appearance of avidyA in samAdhi is well accepted. However, that
>>>> is explained not due to absence of avidyA, but due to absence of
>>>> avidyAkArA-avidyA-vritti. In avidyA-pratIti-vichAra of advaita-siddhi, MS
>>>> says:-
>>>>
>>>> न चैवं कदाचिदविद्याया अप्रतीत्यापत्तिः; इष्टापत्तेः, समाधौ
>>>> तथाभ्युपगमात् ।
>>>>
>>>> Is there any clear articulation anywhere that avidyA is not present
>>>> during samAdhi. Because if avidyA is not present during samAdhi, then one
>>>> will not be able to wake up from samAdhi.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> //Since it is admitted that the Tattva agrahana rupa avidya is present
>>>> in all three states, in Samadhi when Akhandakara vritti is there, that
>>>> avidya is not present. The Ramakrishna Teeka for the above verse where he
>>>> says 'ajnana is not there in samadhi', can be seen here:
>>>>
>>>> https://archive.org/details/panchadashi-ramkrishna/page/n57/mode/2up//
>>>>
>>>> Does attaining nirvikalpaka-samAdhi once leads to destruction of avidyA?
>>>>
>>>> //Of course, the mind, which is the instrument for even attaining
>>>> Samadhi, has to be admitted to be present. Also, the nascent form of
>>>> avidya/mind are admitted to be present even during samadhi, since they have
>>>> not destroyed so that the post-samadhi life of the Jnani requires this
>>>> non-binding form (lesha/vasana) of avidya is the one that sustains the
>>>> body-mind of the Jnani till the fall of the body.//
>>>>
>>>> This is well understood.
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> --
>> Additional Commissioner of Income-tax,
>> Pune
>>
>> sudhanshushekhar.wordpress.com
>>
>

-- 
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Pune

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