[Advaita-l] [advaitin] demonstrating aparokshanubhuti - WAS - 'Mithya' in Upanishads

[sreenivasa murthy]

 Dear Sri Vikram Jagannathan,
Sri Shankara uses the words "svasAkshikam ||", "svAnuBavagamyam||".Sruti says "svayaMjyOtiH".Sri Gaudapada says in Shloka 39 of chapter-2 of karikas thus:tattvaM adhyAtmikaM dRuShTvA tattvaM dRuShtVAtu bAhyataH |tattvIBUtadArAmastatvAdapracyutO BavEt ||
In Shloka 33 of Chapter Advaita PrakaraNa Sri Gaudapada reveals :akalpakamajam jnAnam jnEyABinnaM pracakshatE |brahma jnEyaM ajam nityaM ajEnAjaM vibudhyatE ||
One who quotes from texts to bring to the attention of the readersmust and should have realized within himself by himself what has beenrevealed in the above teachings. He should have the guts and intellectualhonesty to declare thus :     vEdAhamEtaM puruShaM mahAnta-          ntamAdityavarNam tamasaH parastAt |     tamEva viditvA atimRutyumEti           nAnyaH panthA vidyatE ayanAya||SvEtASvara ; 3-8.Sri J Krishnamurti in one of his writings he says:            Do not utter even a single word which you yourself 
            has not understood.Atman, your true nature, is apramEyam as revealed in Bhagavadgita and 
Bruhadaranyaka Upanishad.Kindly study mantras 2-1-3&2-1-4 of Kathopanishad and 
Mantra 2-4 of Kena Upanishad along with the Sri Shankara's commentariesto these mantras.Then the words what you have used become very clear to you.I pray to the Indwelling Reality to bless you with that Vision.With this I close.
With respectful pranams,Sreenivasa Murthy.
or realized.




Mantra 

    On Friday, 19 May, 2023 at 12:23:40 am IST, Vikram Jagannathan <vikkyjagan at gmail.com> wrote:  
 
 Namaskaram Shri Sreenivasa Murthy ji,
Sruti, indeed, says so.But your request was not for Sruti pramana; you had asked for anubhava pramana.
Repeating myself; you requested "Based on your own anuBava I request you kindly to reveal this to me. Then only you quoting these Sruti mantras become fruitful to the reader."
Either: 1. Please describe how to best reveal my atman-brahman aparokshanubhuti in a manner understandable by you.
Or: 2. Kindly demonstrate or prove to me my lack of atman-brahman aparokshanubhuti, so that I can work towards this prior to quoting Sruti mantras.

with humble prostrations,
Vikram


On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 10:08 PM sreenivasa murthy <narayana145 at yahoo.co.in> wrote:

 Dear Sri Vikram Jagannathan,
 Sruthi uses the following words : 
      (1) Atmavit, mantravit || Chandogya
      (2) Srotriyam, brahmaniShTham.|| Mundaka
      (3) ananyaproktE gatratra nAsti || Katha .      (4) upadEkShyanti tE jnAnam jnAninaH tattvadarSiBiH || BhagavadgIta      (5) Mantra 4-4-8 of Bruhadarnyaka Upanishad states:                     aNuH panthAvitataH purANO  
                     mAgMspRuShTO^nuvittaH mayyaiva||(6)Sri Shankara ,writes as an introduction to mantra 2-4 
    of Kena Upanishad thus :    EvaM acAryOktaHSiShyaH EkAntE upaviShTaH samAhitaH san yathOtamAcAryENaAgamam arthatO vicArya, tarkataSca nirdhAryasvAnuBavaM kRutvAAcAryasakASamupagamyOvAca manyE ahamathEdAnIM viditaM brahmEti ||
(7) Mantra 6-8 of PrashnOpanishad reads thus : 
tEtamarcayantastvaM hi naH pita yO asmAkamavidyayAH paraM pAraM tArayasIti ||

Now you must have realized in what spirit my posting has been written.You draw your own tight conclusions.
With respectful pranams,Sreenivasa Murthy.

             







 
   

    On Thursday, 18 May, 2023 at 02:14:42 am IST, Vikram Jagannathan via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:  
 
 Namaskaram Shri Sreenivasa Murthy ji,

I understand and appreciate your objective of calling out the fundamental
tenet of Advaita - that it is only through anubhava. Advaita realization is
neither a physical act nor mental dexterity nor intellectual sophistry.
Ayam Atma Brahma is only aparokshanubhuti beyond space & time and thoughts
& words.

However, I am running into a problem with your request and seeking your
guidance to resolve. You requested "Based on your own anuBava I request you
kindly to reveal this to me. Then only you quoting these Sruti mantras
become fruitful to the reader."

Either: 1. Please describe how to best reveal my atman-brahman
aparokshanubhuti in a manner understandable by you.
Or: 2. Kindly demonstrate or prove to me my lack of atman-brahman
aparokshanubhuti, so that I can work towards this prior to quoting Sruti
mantras.

It goes without saying that "I" and "my" here only refers to the
functioning antahkarana illumined by atman-brahman and stands juxtaposed
with "you" and "your".

with humble prostrations,
Vikram

On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 9:00 AM 'sreenivasa murthy' via advaitin <
advaitin at googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Dear Sri Subramanian,
> You Write :
>
> “Mandukya too has such references like Brahman  is prapanchopasham”.
>
> Mandukya also says : "sarvagaM hi Etad brahma ayamAtmA brahma"
>
> Mantra 7-25-1 of Chandogya says : ahamEvEdagM sarvam ||
>
> Mantra 7-25-2 of Chandogya says : AtmaivEdagaM sarvam ||
>
> Hence AtmA is ptapaMcOpaSamaH and I am prapaMcOpaSamah||
>
> Is the above conclusion a mere intellectual one or is it a fact of life
> HERE &NOW?
>
> HOw can this be cognized as a fact of Life within oneself by oneself?
>
> Based on your own anuBava I request you kindly to reveal this to me. Then
> only you quoting these Sruti mantras become fruitful to the reader.
>
> With respectful pranams,
>
> Sreenivasa Murthy.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, 17 May, 2023 at 06:40:07 pm IST, V Subrahmanian <
> v.subrahmanian at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> You can look at the many references in the Upanishads for equivalent words
> and expressions that unambiguously convey the idea of mithyatva.
>
> The Chandogya 6th chapter says the world as a transformation of Brahman is
> not real. Mrittikeyyeva satyam..
>
> Apaagat agneragnitvam
> ..
>
> Mandukya too has such references like Brahman  is prapanchopasham.
>
> Mayamaatram dvaitam Advaitam paramarthathah, etc.
>
> There are many.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, 16 May 2023, 9:51 pm Krishna kapoor, <krishnakapoor571 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Namaskar everyone
>
> There is a very complex debate between Vaishnavas and Advaitins, where
> Vaishnavas have been saying that Jagat is Satya and nowhere in Upanishads
> it is written the Jagat is Mithya or unreal. It comes in Niralamba
> Upanishad 'Brahma Satyam Jagat MithyA' but this is not one of the Mukhya
> Upanishads.
>
> Please kindly tell where is term 'Mithya' in the Mukhya Upanishads?
>
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