[Advaita-l] ***UNCHECKED*** Re: Gaudapada and Shankara hold the waking objects to be mithya

[V Subrahmanian]

Maya is TucchA as per Shruti:

न निरोधो न चोत्पत्तिर्न बद्धो न च साधकः।
न मुमुक्षा न मुक्तिश्च इत्येषा परमार्थता ॥

This is found in some Upanishads like Brahmabindu, Amritabindu, etc. As per
this verse, no creation, no world, therefore no jivas, none bound, none
striving for release and no realized person/no state of release.  Hence no
role for maya in this paramarthik state.  This is the absolute state.  Also
from shrutis like neha nanasti kinchana, ekamevadvitiyam, na tu
taddvitiyamasti, salila eko advaitah, prapanchopashamam shantam shivam
advaitam, etc. maya and its kaarya do not exist.  So tucchatvam can be
established.

Yukti: सच्चेन्न बाध्येत, असच्चेन्न प्रतीयेत - if maya kaarya had been real,
it would not be sublated/negated by jnana. But it is seen to be negated. If
it had been asat (hare's horn tucchaa), it would not have been perceived.
But it is perceived; the snake bhrama is experienced.  So, it is
sadasadvilakshana anirvachaniya.

regards
subbu





On Thu, Jul 27, 2023 at 3:08 PM Sudhanshu Shekhar via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Namaste Chandramouli ji.
>
> I understand what you said. But there is a difference between horns of hare
> and illusory snake. The former does not appear while the latter appears.
> The former is tuchcha while the latter is mithtA.
>
> PanchadashI says that it is only through yukti that avidyA/MAyA is
> anirvachanIyA. As per Shruti, it is tuchchA.
>
> Now, to understand mithyAtva/anirvachanIyatva of MAyA is simple. Advaita
> Siddhi deals with that in detail.
>
> But the point is -- MAyA is tuchchhA. How to understand that!! Shankara
> says in DashashlokI - jagat tuchchham. How to understand that!!
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 27, 2023 at 2:10 PM H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com
> >
> wrote:
>
> > Namaste Sudhanshu Ji,
> >
> > //  आदावन्ते च यन्नास्ति वर्तमानेऽपि तत्तथा । // is a  Declaration,
> > प्रतिज्ञा  (pratij~nA)  by  the Shruti of a vyApti/general rule/
> > invariable concomitance. Similar to for example यत्र यत्र धूमः तत्र तत्र
> > अग्निः (yatra yatra dhUmaH tatra tatra agniH).  Anything in Creation
> > comprises two parts, one the Real part and the second, an apparently Real
> > part. What is experienced as existing is the apparently Real part. It
> > appears and disappears. Meaning thereby that it is replaced with
> something
> > else. The Real part never disappears  and never changes. The above vyApti
> >  declares the distinction between the two.
> > Regards
> >
> >
> > <
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail
> >
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> >
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> >
> > On Thu, Jul 27, 2023 at 11:36 AM Sudhanshu Shekhar via Advaita-l <
> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Namaste V Subramanian ji.
> >>
> >> How do you explain this shloka:
> >>
> >> तुच्छानिर्वचनीया च वास्तवी चेत्यसौ त्रिधा।
> >> ज्ञेया माया त्रिभिर्बोधैः श्रौतयौक्तिकलौकिकैः॥
> >>
> >> It says that as per Shruti, MAyA is tuchchA i.e. क्वचिदप्युपाधौ सत्त्वेन
> >> प्रतीयमानत्वानधिकरणत्वम्. It is only as per logic that MAyA is stated to
> >> be
> >> anirvachanIya i.e. mithyA i.e. something different from asat and sat
> i.e.
> >> non-existent in all three period of time in the locus where it appears
> to
> >> exist.
> >>
> >> As per Shruti, MAyA is tuchchA i.e. ineligible to even appear as
> existing
> >> in any locus.
> >>
> >> I think if Brahman is the sole reality, there is no option but to hold
> >> MAyA/avidyA as tuchchA. If mithyAtva of avidyA does not violate advaita,
> >> then what is the need to posit its tuchchatva?
> >>
> >> Or should we say: tuchchatva of avidyA is from the frame of reference of
> >> Brahman AND mithyAtva of avidyA is from the frame of reference of
> avidyA.
> >> And mithyAtva of avidyA is not contradictory to advaita as tuchchatva
> and
> >> mithyAtva have non-existence in common?
> >>
> >> Regards.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Jul 27, 2023 at 9:46 AM V Subrahmanian <
> v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Jul 27, 2023 at 7:47 AM Sudhanshu Shekhar via Advaita-l <
> >> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Namaste.
> >> >>
> >> >> The problem is - how can a completely non-existent thing appear to
> >> exist
> >> >> even in the middle.
> >> >>
> >> >> Tuchchha and mithyA are both non-existent. While the former does not
> >> even
> >> >> appear to exist, the latter appears to exist.
> >> >>
> >> >> But how can something which is non-existent in past, present and
> future
> >> >> can
> >> >> even appear to exist?
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > Namaste
> >> >
> >> > न हि दृष्टे अनुपपन्नं नाम |  When something is so glaringly
> experienced,
> >> > there is nothing unreasonable about it.
> >> >
> >> > The stock example is: the experiencing of the unreal snake during a
> >> > bhrama.  The snake there is not in that locus rope during all three
> >> periods
> >> > of time.  Yet it is experienced by the one who is under the
> >> > spell/delusion.  Shankara says in the opening lines of the
> >> Sridakshinamurti
> >> > stotram:  पश्यन्नात्मनि मायया बहिरिवोद्भूतं यथा निद्रया:  a person
> >> > perceives/experiences the world within him just like one would
> >> experience a
> >> > dream. In a dream one experiences all as though it is 'outside' him,
> the
> >> > waking. Yet upon waking one would realize that they were never
> >> 'outside',
> >> > were inside alone but gave the feeling of outside.   The dream
> >> > objects/events are not there, they did no happen at all, during all
> >> three
> >> > periods of time. Yet one experiences them.  However, upon questioning,
> >> he
> >> > realizes their non-existence during all periods of time.  This is the
> >> > vaibhava of maya/avidya: Shankara said: अघटितघटनापटीयसी माया Maya is
> >> that
> >> > inscrutable power that is an expert in displaying something that is
> >> > impossible.
> >> >
> >> > regards
> >> > subbu
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Additional Commissioner of Income-tax,
> >> Pune
> >>
> >> sudhanshushekhar.wordpress.com
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> --
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> Pune
>
> sudhanshushekhar.wordpress.com
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