[Advaita-l] ***UNCHECKED*** Re: Re: Shankara says the objective waking world is a projection of Avidya

[V Subrahmanian]

On Mon, Jul 24, 2023 at 4:49 PM Sudhanshu Shekhar <sudhanshu.iitk at gmail.com>
wrote:

> //The statement by Shankara that the waking world is a projection of
> Avidya and that projection gives the impression that the projected world,
> along with the instruments that perceive it, are diff from the Atman,
> oneself.  So much Shankara explicitly says. This duality is not there in
> sushupti.  From this it is clear that the perception of the waking is no
> different from the waking creation. //
>
> World being a projection of avidya does not necessarily imply that
> projected world and perception are same. In fact, the world being a
> projection of avidyA is admitted in both SDV and DSV. However, it is only
> DSV which holds creation to be the same as drishTi.
>
> In SDV, there is sequential creation. From avidyA, there is avyakta, then
> mahat, then ahamkAra then panchikaraNa etc. While in DSV, there is no such
> sequence. It is simultaneous creation.
>
> World being projection of avidyA can thus be understood in two
> fundamentally different irreconcilable ways.
>
> My point is: in DSV, where there is simultaneous creation, there is no
> past. I see a table now and saw the same table a moment back. I have a
> pratyabhijnA that this is same table which I saw a moment back. In SDV, it
> is perfectly true. A correct state of affairs. However, in DSV, this
> pratyabhijnA is illusion. Just as a dream table a moment back is not same
> as dream table at another moment, similarly waking table at time t1 is
> different from waking table at time t2.
>
> This leads to another fundamental issue. In DSV, how do we know that there
> was a sushupti. All we have is a thought right now which says that I had a
> sushupti. Like in dream, I may have a thought that I had a deep sleep. It
> does not prove that I had a deep sleep.
>
> Similarly in waking also, my thought right now that I had sushupti does
> not prove that I had sushupti. It is part and parcel of a thought right now.
>
> In DSV, thus, there can be no past or future. All we have is a thought
> right now and the seer of the thought. Nothing else. No waking, no dream,
> no sushupti. Seer and fluctuation in avidyA.
>
> Thus, my point is: can we make a statement like this:
> avasthA-traya-vichAra is valid only in SDV and not in DSV.
>

Dear Sudhanshu ji,

In DSV too the avastha traya vichara is valid.  The aspirant who takes up
DSV for sadhana/vichara does indeed undergo the three states. So his line
of vichara would be: Every anubhava I have is akin to a dream which is
private to me. The experience of waking, dream and the sleep (that I recall
in the waking) are all part of my 'this' waking experience alone, where I
am doing this vichara. Hence the crux of the DSV vichara is this. For him,
the shaastra which teaches the world is created by Ishwara in a sequence of
muula prakriti, ahankara, pancha bhutas, etc. is 'क्रमोक्तत्वेन कल्पितम्'
everything in the shastra which has a SDV touch is for him '...tvena
kalpitam'.  अनेकजन्मसंसिद्धत्वेन मुक्तिः कल्पिता...and so on.

In fact we have the Aitareya shruti itself labelling all the three states
as three dreams.  The bhashya there is very revealing:
तस्य त्रय आवसथास्त्रयः स्वप्ना अयमावसथोऽयमावसथोऽयमावसथ इति ॥ १२ ॥ mantra

Bhashya: त्रयः स्वप्ना जाग्रत्स्वप्नसुषुप्त्याख्याः । ननु जागरितं
प्रबोधरूपत्वान्न स्वप्नः । नैवम् ; स्वप्न एव । कथम् ?
परमार्थस्वात्मप्रबोधाभावात् स्वप्नवदसद्वस्तुदर्शनाच्च । He raises a
question: Since the waking is of the nature of being awake, not being in
sleep (where the dream and sleep are) how can it be a dream? In reply he
says the waking is also dream alone: 1. since the true knowledge of the
self is absent and 2. *just as in the dream, in the waking too one
perceives objects that are really not there.*

This second reason is interesting.  In the waking the scriptural definition
is: इन्द्रियैः विषयोपलब्धिः जागरणम् which is not the case in dream where
indriya janya jnana is not there but the indriyas and the vishayas and
their contact, all are projected by the mind which is active then.
Shankara says the waking is not any different.  When we juxtapose the BG
2.16 bhashya passage I have cited with this, it is even more graphic:
objects perceived with indriyas do not exist (really).

warm regards
subbu



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