[Advaita-l] [advaitin] rAma-krishna-shiva-durga etc. are not same in shAstric vyavahAra!!!

[Venkatraghavan S]

Resending, as it sounds like the previous message was held up due to size
constraints.

Namaste Subbuji,
Thank you very much for bringing this up.

I have a different view to this section - while normally sRShTi sthiti laya
in the Shruti is a brahma linga, there are very specific jIva linga-s here
that indicate that the one performing these activities is the prathamaja
jIva, not Ishvara.

You had asked:

On Tue, 14 Feb 2023, 00:12 V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l, <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

>
> In that case, is the Viraj a jiva who has attained that state by the
> sadhana of jnana-karma samucchaya?

Yes, I believe the bhAShya pretty conclusively answers in the affirmative.

1) In the beginning bhAShya of 1.4.1 shankarAchArya comments on the word
Atma, not as paramAtma but as a sharIri, jIvAtma:
आत्मैव आत्मेति प्रजापतिः प्रथमोऽण्डजः शरीर्यभिधीयते ।
The reference to the virAT prajApati as "sharIri" in the bhAShya indicates
that the bhAShyakAra considers him as a jIva indeed - he also calls him a
prathama-anDaja.

2) The bhAShya says - the very same prajApati alone is born, a result of
jnAnakarma samuccaya. The next sentence is: वैदिकज्ञानकर्मफलभूतः स एव —
किम् ? इदं शरीरभेदजातं तेन प्रजापतिशरीरेणाविभक्तम् आत्मैवासीत् अग्रे
प्राक्शरीरान्तरोत्पत्तेः ।
The Atma, who is prajApati (आत्मेति प्रजापतिः), was alone present,
undifferentiated into any body other than prajApati, in the beginning, i.e.
prior to the creation of any other body.

3) The bhAShya then says he saw himself and wondered who he was, and he
didn't see anyone else - स एव प्रथमः सम्भूतोऽनुवीक्ष्यान्वालोचनं कृत्वा —
‘कोऽहं किंलक्षणो वास्मि’ इति, नान्यद्वस्त्वन्तरम् , आत्मनः
प्राणपिण्डात्मकात्कार्यकरणरूपात् , नापश्यत् न ददर्श । Shankaracharya uses a
phrase for his body आत्मनः प्राणपिण्डात्मकात्कार्यकरणरूपात्  - his body,
being of the nature of a mass/lump of prANa (prANa piNDa), ie
kArya-karaNa-rUpa. Again, the use of the phrase kArya-karaNa-rUpa as
opposed to mAyAmaya-rUpa is a jIva linga, because it is a jIva whose body
is kAryakaraNa rUpa (in the brahma sUtra Shankaracharya describes the body
of Ishvara as a mAyAmaya rUpa  स्यात् परमेश्वरस्यापि इच्छावशात्
मायामयंरूपं).

4) He then goes on to say that the entity in question recalled his nature,
as a result of the purification due to karma and upAsana undertaken in his
previous life. तथा पूर्वजन्मश्रौतविज्ञानसंस्कृतः ‘सोऽहं प्रजापतिः,
सर्वात्माहमस्मि’ इत्यग्रे व्याहरत् व्याहृतवान् ।
This indicates two things - he had a prior life in which he had performed
jnAna (upAsana) and karma and his present birth was a result of that - ie
he was a kartA, as a result of which he became a bhoktA too. Such a being
cannot be Ishvara, for Ishvara sharIra is taken इच्छावशात्, not कर्मवशात्,
and He neither performs karma nor is he subject to karma phala.

The second thing this indicates was that his knowledge of his nature was a
result of samskAra undertaken in a previous birth - ie he was a jIva whose
body mind complex needed samskAra for it to manifest knowledge. Such a
being cannot be the Ishvara whom the brihadAraNyaka will later go on to
describe as - for whom the very Vedas are effortless creations, emerging as
though like breath - अस्य महतो भूतस्य निःश्वसितमेतद्यदृग्वेदो यजुर्वेदः
सामवेदोऽथर्वाङ्गिरसः.

Moving on, the bhAShya then describes why his first secret name is "aham"
and every being born from him refers to itself as aham (as the cause, so
the effect).

5) What are these defects that this entity previously possessed?  In
talking about the second name, auShat, the bhAShyakAra says:
स च प्रजापतिः, अतिक्रान्तजन्मनि सम्यक्कर्मज्ञानभावनानुष्ठानैः
साधकावस्थायाम् , यद्यस्मात् , कर्मज्ञानभावनानुष्ठानैः प्रजापतित्वं
प्रतिपित्सूनां पूर्वः प्रथमः सन् ,
अस्मात्प्रजापतित्वप्रतिपित्सुसमुदायात्सर्वस्मात् , आदौ औषत् अदहत् ; किम् ?
आसङ्गाज्ञानलक्षणान्सर्वान्पाप्मनः प्रजापतित्वप्रतिबन्धकारणभूतान् ;
That prajApati who in his prior birth had adequately performed karma and
upAsana as a sAdhaka (again, a sAdhaka, meaning a jIva, not a nityasiddha
Ishvara), was the first of the prajApati-s (in a kalpa, hiraNyagarbha
himself is born as the first prajApati). Such a first among the prajApati-s
burnt (auShat). Burnt what? - all manner of evils - attachment and
ignorance (आसङ्गाज्ञानलक्षणान्) which were obstacles preventing him from
being the prajApati in his past life (प्रजापतित्वप्रतिबन्धकारणभूतान्).
Again we get three indicatory marks of being a jIva - 1)  he was a sAdhaka
in his previous birth. 2) He suffered from attachment and ignorance (which
Ishvara can never suffer from) 3) these defects prevented him from being a
prajApati back in his previous life itself (again Ishvara is nitya, He does
not become Ishvara with effort).

The nature of the defects which needed samskAra in the previous sentence
are elaborated in the above sentence.

6) That is the reason he gets the third secret name - puruSha - because he
burns off the one before him - पूर्वमौषदिति पुरुषः - pUrvam auShat iti
puruShah. Who does he burn? He burns the one before who wanted to be
prajApati. कम् ? योऽस्माद्विदुषः पूर्वः प्रथमः प्रजापतिर्बुभूषति
भवितुमिच्छति तमित्यर्थः ।

But isn't the desire to be a virAT dangerous, if it means getting burnt by
the one who knows how to be prajApati? नन्वनर्थाय प्राजापत्यप्रतिपित्सा,
एवंविदा चेद्दह्यते. No, this is not a defect, for the burning only refers
to the burning of the flaws that prevented him from the first prajApati
- नैष दोषः, ज्ञानभावनोत्कर्षाभावात् प्रथमं
प्रजापतित्वप्रतिपत्त्यभावमात्रत्वाद्दाहस्य ।

7) The one possessing of the superior means to the knowledge attains the
post of prajApati, and the one who does not so possess does not so attain,
and so the former is figuratively said to burn the latter. It is not as
though he really burns someone:
 उत्कृष्टसाधनः प्रथमं प्रजापतित्वं प्राप्नुवन् न्यूनसाधनो न प्राप्नोतीति, स
तं दहतीत्युच्यते ; न पुनः प्रत्यक्षमुत्कृष्टसाधनेनेतरो दह्यते.
Again, plenty of clues that prajApatitva is a post to be attained through
some means. He was not a prajApati first because he lacked the means. Later
he acquired the means, put those means into practice and then acquired the
post.

Shankaracharya then makes it even more clear by giving the example of a
race when he says - the winner of a race can be figuratively described as
burning the competition, because the winner has effectively shorn the
competition of their strength - यथा लोके आजिसृतां यः प्रथममाजिमुपसर्पति
तेनेतरे दग्धा इवापहृतसामर्थ्या भवन्ति, तद्वत्.

Therefore, while we can certainly acknowledge that the performance of
sRShTi sthiti laya are the domain of Ishvara, the prajApati in question who
performs these activities is a jIva in reality because of various
indicatory marks in the shruti text that are clarified in the bhAShya.

So, in my view, the bhAShya proves that the entity is in reality a jIva
only for all the reasons enumerated above.

But isn't the kartA of sRShTi sthiti laya a brahmalinga, which the
sUtrakAra uses as a taTastha lakshaNa in janmAdyasya yatah? You had said
doesn't this (taking this prajApati to be a jIva) contradict elsewhere in
the sUtra where it was said jIva-s cannot perform this function?

The bhashyam says:
>
> *प्रजापतेः फलभूतस्य* सृष्टिस्थितिसंहारेषु जगतः
> स्वातन्त्र्यादिविभूत्युपवर्णनेन ज्ञानकर्मणोर्वैदिकयोः फलोत्कर्षो वर्णयितव्य
> इत्येवमर्थमारभ्यते ।
>
> Prajapati is a 'phala', result, of a certain sadhana. Does someone with a
> sadhana attaining the status of Prajapati/Virat have the power to create,
> etc. independently? Also, is it not a contradiction with the Brahma Sutra
> 'Jagatvyapara varjyam..' which is stated to be the 'sole' domain of nitya
> siddha Ishwara?  That is the point I was making.
>
> regards
> subbu
>
I believe the above doesn't rule out a jIva performing these functions - I
think the above only refers to the sAdhaka-s who as a result of brahma
jnAna have become mukta-s - they are Brahman, but they cannot fulfil roles
as the Creator, Preserver and Sustainer of the universe, because they do
not possess the instruments / body mind complex with which to perform such
roles.

To be the Creator prajApati, requires the performance of karma and upAsana
as stated in 1.4.1 - jnAni-s are Brahman because they have brahma jnAna but
in order for them to perform the functions of creating, preserving and
destroying, they also need a body mind complex purified by karma-upAsana
samuccaya. Even then, they are performing the roles not *as* Ishvara, but *as
prajApati*, *under the blessing of Ishvara (*mRtyurdhAvati pancama iti).
The svAtantrya in the bhAShya must be interpreted here to mean without the
help of anybody else, not independently of Ishvara.

Such beings are exalted, no doubt, but when their creation, preservation
and destruction of universe is being talked about, this is a function that
they uniquely / independently perform - like the CEO of a company. The CEO
is the first and most senior employee in the company, but he is only
fulfilling a temporary role on behalf of someone. Once his job is done, he
will retire and someone else will take up the job. They are managers for
the real boss, the owner (the shareholders in the case of a CEO, Ishvara in
the case of hiraNyagarbha).

In many places we use the presence of these functions as a brahmalinga, but
we have to add a corollary - if there are mitigating factors to Ishvara
being the one being talked about, we have to revisit that original
conclusion. These jobs alone cannot be the conclusive indicatory mark of
Ishvara - it has to be the presence of that, in the absence of mitigating
factors indicating of jIva - and 1.4.1 is a good example of where that
occurs.

Kind regards,
Venkatraghavan