[Advaita-l] [advaitin] Tattvabodha of Adi Sankaracharya - 22
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Sun Sep 27 15:55:32 EDT 2020
On Monday, September 21, 2020, 8:18:20 PM EDT, VIJAY KUMAR via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
Thank you for this very perceptive post. Perhaps the errors could have been made during the note taking. After all what the speaker vocalizes as his interpretation, and what our mind absorbs, and then what gets written down - many a slip between the cup and lips.
There is no one interpretation of these works and there are direct contradictions in each as well.
Ultimately one can only absorb so much before everything becomes mush. And then we dive into the details and try to untangle the verbiage, and then what do we have in our hands? Not much!
I have finally seen the value of what Ramana says about reading of texts. He says instead of self-inquiry, seeking the self in texts that only hides it, is like a man who instead of sweeping out them all aside, seeks the self in the number of texts and the arguments over it. He should instead think of the world as a dream.
He also says a mumukshu knows that every text says the same thing - controling of the mind is the only way to find your self. After one understands that reading any number of texts is useless. One needs to go into the interior to find the self, you cannot find it in the texts that are outside it.
Hari om All Vedantins,
The last mail from Sri Jayanarayanan prompted me to write this. The first Paragraph is like this
"From another angle, let us examine 'sat cit AtmA'. Atman is sat-chit-svarUpaH. What is the size of Atman? SthUla sareeram is limited in size and so is sUkshma Sareeram. kAraNa Sareeram is behind these two and so is limited too. Also, there are as many Sareeras as indi- viduals. If caitanyam is different from the body, what can be its size? If it is the property of the Sareeram, then wherever there is body, there should be Consciousness (Atman) and where there is no body, there should be no Conscious- ness. Also, Consciousness being distinct from the Sareeram, it does not have the limitations of the body, mind and intellect and is all pervading. Then, what about the Consciousness within any sareeram? The all-pervading Con- sciousness is only manifest in that Sareeram. According to the scriptures, Atma caitanyam is limitless. Looking at it from two angles:"
The question of 'size' come only when you are thinking of measurements. We are in Vyavaharic world, that is why the question is. Atman is beyond this world and cannot cognize with our intellect. We are in "Him". the word 'Him' is also wrong because it is beyond gender. We are in that. Intellect is asking this "what is height? What is weight? What is size? Etc. The moment you say any answer to that question, it becomes limited. All such questions does not have a base.
Even the Word "Brahman" and "Atman', is wrong because there is no name. But at this level we have to have some name, that is why all the masters 'Named' them something, to make us understand, and follow, and when we understand, not intellectually, in reality, there is no Brahman, No Atman.
The second question "and where there is no body, there should be no Conscious- ness." This is incorrect. Consciousness is there everywhere, in fact only consciousness is there. Where body is there or not.
Sadaji earlier answered this questions. The Sat- Chit- Ananda aspect. Where body is not, it is expressing as 'sat'. Sat alone 'is', and 'was', and 'will be'.
These three words 'is, 'was' and 'will be' is also wrong. Because, they indicate time. It is beyond time.
Sorry to bring this up. I thought of writing my 2 cents
On Monday, September 21, 2020, 07:35:28 PM EDT, 'S Jayanarayanan' via advaitin <advaitin at googlegroups.com> wrote:
(Continued from previous post)
>From another angle, let us examine 'sat cit
AtmA'. Atman is sat-chit-svarUpaH. What is the
size of Atman? SthUla Sareeram is limited in
size and so is sUkshma Sareeram. kAraNa
Sareeram is behind these two and so is limited
too. Also, there are as many Sareeras as indi-
viduals. If caitanyam is different from the body,
what can be its size? If it is the property of the
Sareeram, then wherever there is body, there
should be Consciousness (Atman) and where
there is no body, there should be no Conscious-
ness. Also, Consciousness being distinct from
the Sareeram, it does not have the limitations
of the body, mind and intellect and is all per-
vading. Then, what about the Consciousness
within any Sareeram? The all-pervading Con-
sciousness is only manifest in that Sareeram.
According to the scriptures, Atma caitanyam is
limitless. Looking at it from two angles:
1) When Atman is sat, it is eternal and not
bound by time - kAlatraye.api tiShThatIti . For a similar
reason, the Atman is not bound by space also.
It is anantaH - limitless, all-pervading. Also it is
pUrNaH - Full. Sat cit AtmA is pUrNaH.
Then, let us analyze what are sorrow
and joy. Whenever one is unhappy, we ask
what is needed or what is lacking? I.e sorrow
is because of a limitation - money, health, love
etc. Or, we can say that sorrow is an indica-
tion or symptom of the disease called limita-
tion. Similarly, joy is an indication of fulfill-
ment or poorNatvam. In other words, unful-
fillment of a desire leads to sorrow and the
fulfillment leads to joy. That means, Ananda
is an expression of poorNatvam or anantatvam.
Therefore, Atman is sat-cit-ananta -> poorNa
-> Ananda, and is of the nature of
2) All-pervading principle: Atman is also known
by another name called brahman, both indi-
cating Consciousness. Why then two names?
When we refer to an individual body, we call
it by the word Atman, and when we refer to
the total body (of all individual bodies), we
call it by the term brahman - (brahmaNatvAt)
which means that which is the biggest, the
In summary Atman is Sat-Cit-Ananda-
svarupa. Sat is the existence principle; cit is the
awareness or knowledge principle and Ananda
is the bliss poorNa (complete) principle. Sat is
what remains unchanged during all the three
periods of time past, present and future.
Atman is not one of the three bodies but is
present in every one of them as a fundamen-
tal element and does not ever change. Cit is
the principle of absolute knowledge or aware-
ness that is present as a witness in all three
states of existence. The awareness is again
present in all periods of time and of the na-
ture of sat. Ananda is the principle which
comes from poorNatvam or completeness.
Atman is poorNa or does not lack anything.
Since it does not lack anything, there is Ananda
or bliss. Also, it transcends the mind and in-
tellect (koSAtIta) and there are no emotions
or expressions of joy in the Ananda and so there
is the equanimity concept also in the Ananda
Thus, after the negation of all anAtmA
elements, the author asserts what the nature
of the Atman is and concludes the section of
jIvavicaAra or analysis of the individual.
(Continued in next post)
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