[Advaita-l] Paramatma Antaratma
smallpress at ymail.com
Sat Sep 26 18:47:16 EDT 2020
On Saturday, September 26, 2020, 05:03:24 PM EDT, Kuntimaddi Sadananda <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com> wrote: PranamOnce we understand at deep/spiritual level all the things that we are not, and also understand at deep/spiritual level there is only brhmam and nothing else, we cannot at the same time conceive of any other third object such as Paramatma. We may not yet be at Ramana or Ramakrishna’s level of experiencing of our swaroopa, but we can conceive of such an idea and believe it.I think Advaita simply ends there. Any other intermediary, such as prkrity, maya, or paramatma does not advance our understanding and instead introduces Duality, which we know is result of existential ignorance. Gaudpada’s karika on this Upanishad also indicates the same thing.My humble opinion.Soma.
Please examine your statements - 'ignorance makes us see duality'. The question then is, does the ignorance at the Jeeva level creates that duality or plurality and makes us see or ignorance makes us see the duality that exists external to the Jeeva. Do I create the world and then see it.
Look at the dream world, does the dream subject, creates the whole dream world, and then sees or he enters as though into the dream world as a subject.
For a dreamer the dream is not a dream while in the dream. It is the waker's mind that creates the whole dream and pervades the whole dream world including the dream subject and the tiger which is chasing that dream subject along with the forests and rivers etc. If you look at Mandukya mantras - the waking and dream worlds are described in parallel - both have 'ekona vishati mukhaH' there are nineteen gates ways where the weaker subject in the waking state and dream-subject in the dream world experiencing their worlds. Only after awakening the dream subject and the waker-subject become one.
On Saturday, September 26, 2020, 04:37:30 PM EDT, smallpress <smallpress at ymail.com> wrote:
On Saturday, September 26, 2020, 4:18:12 PM EDT, Kuntimaddi Sadananda <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com> wrote:
SadanandaJi, thank you for that information.
But my question did not refer to the three states.
Mandukya Upanishad asserts there is only Omkara and nothing else that exists. All the 3 states are steeped in ignorance. Our atma is one with Omkara is the only truth. Only ignorance makes us see duality, separation from Omkara which the Upanshas describes as Satya shivam shantam. Where is the relevance for a creator Paramatma? I believe this introduces Duality, and perhaps that Krishnanda's view. It adds confusion not clarity.
Madukya up. Persents the three states - waking, dream and deep sleep states both from micro and macro references. The waking state at micro level is vishvanaraH at the macro level, The dream state, tejasa at the macro level is hiranya garbha and the deep sleep state at the microlevel is Iswara at macro level.
On Saturday, September 26, 2020, 02:24:28 PM EDT, smallpress via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
On Saturday, September 26, 2020, 12:56:44 PM EDT, V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com> wrote:
That you for your kind response, Subbu Ji.
Is it not a bit problematic to talk of a creator paramatma when the Mandukya upanishad assert only one brhmam that always is, the Omkara?.ayam atma brhma it says.
So when the quoted verse talks of the jiva in the jagrit state, the saptanga part belongs to the atma of the jiva itself, as the stulabhukVaishvanara: in this 3rd Mandukya verse:
जागरितस्थानो बहिष्प्रज्ञः सप्ताङ्ग एकोनविंशतिमुखः स्थूलभुग्वैश्वानरः प्रथमः पादः ।।
Doesn't bringing in the Paramatma concept kind of also brings in duality?
The only difference in the Jiva in ignorance and the jiva realized is the state of duality. Duality is the ignorance
I am sure I making some error in my reasoning.
On Sat, Sep 26, 2020 at 9:25 PM smallpress via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> Pranams to all of you.
> अग्नीर्मूर्धा चक्षुषी चन्द्रसूर्यौ दिशः श्रोत्रे वाग्विवृताश्च वेदाः ।
> वायुः प्रणो हृदयं विश्वमस्य पद्भ्यां पृथिवी ह्येष सर्वभूतान्तरात्मा ॥ ४ ॥
> Krishnanda in his commentary on the Mandukya upanished (verse 3) says this verse from the Manduka upanishad refers to the Paramatma, that is Brhman. The verse seems to say it is the atma that resides in all the jivas. Would greatly appreciate clarification of what this specifically refers to.
As per Advaita, the Paramatma, the one who created the universe, is the one dwelling in every jiva. The difference between jiva and that Paramatma is not absolute; it is only due to ignorance. Atma in this sense of residing in every jiva is only the other name for Brahman/Paramatma/Antaryami.
> Thank you.Soma
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