[Advaita-l] My notes on the vicAra sAgara 1

[H S Chandramouli]

Pranams Sadananda Ji,

Reg  << Besides we had some discussion on the parinNama and vivarta on the
basis of Panchadashi's text.
Gold becoming ornaments comes under vivartha while ring becoming a bangle
is pariNaama. Vaacharambanam statement applies - loham iti eva satyam.
There was some discussion of milk becoming curds come under pariNaama >>,

Yes. That is right. But unfortunately our respective views were
diametrically opposite.

Regards

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On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 1:36 PM Kuntimaddi Sadananda <
kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Chandramouliji - PraNAms
>
> It was written many years ago. Normally I take notes in a class and expand
> in my own way based on the class notes.
>
> Hence, I mentioned it as Notes based on Swamiji's class. When I write it,
> I express the ideas in my  own way as I understand. Some of the slokas that
> were quoted may not be there in Swamiji's pravachan.
>
> Besides we had some discussion on the parinNama and vivarta on the basis
> of Panchadashi's text.
> Gold becoming ornaments comes under vivartha while ring becoming a bangle
> is pariNaama. Vaacharambanam statement applies - loham iti eva satyam.
> There was some discussion of milk becoming curds come under pariNaama.
>
> Hari Om!
> Sadananda
>
>
>
> On Sunday, 7 June, 2020, 12:43:46 pm IST, H S Chandramouli via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
>
> Pranams Sri Sadananda Ji,
>
> Even if you have reference to the date on which the talk was delivered, I
> think we can get reference to the talk number.
>
> Regards
>
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> On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 12:12 PM H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com
> >
> wrote:
>
> > Pranams Sadananda Ji,
> >
> > Reg  <<  Theorder of reality of ring, bangle, bracelet, etc., must be
> > different from the Goldfrom which they came, by which they are sustained
> > and into which they go back >>,
> >
> > Do you by any chance have reference to the talk number in which Swami
> > Paramarthananda Ji has made such a statement? Topic number and page
> number
> > of Vichara sagara? To the best of my knowledge, Swami Paramarthananda Ji
> > has not made such a statement. On the other hand,  in a talk devoted
> > entirely to the topic of pariNAma and vivarta, he has very clearly
> > explained gold-ornament as well as poy-clay as pariNAma modifications
> only.
> > Unfortunately my earlier attempts here and elsewhere to get a reference
> to
> > that talk did not succeed.
> >
> > Pranams and Regards
> >
> >
> > <
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> >
> > On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 11:22 AM Kuntimaddi Sadananda via Advaita-l <
> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >
> >> The following write-upis based on the Notes taken during Swami
> >> Paramarthanandaji’s class onVicharasagara of Nischaladaasa – I used to
> >> attend Swamiji’s class whenever I was in India. These notes are based
> on my
> >> understanding. I am posting this in parts due to its length. With
> PraNAms
> >> toSwamiji.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> Aatma is adhiShTaanam orsubstratum for everything. It is the seer,
> >> experiencer, but it cannot be seenor experienced.  Bri. Up statement
> says
> >> –na dRiShTeH draShTaaram pasyeH,na shruteH shrotaaram shRiNuyaat, na
> manteH
> >> mantaaram manveethaaH, na vijnaateHvijaataaram vijaaneeyaaH| Esha ta
> aatma
> >> sarvantarH. III-4-2.  That whichsees but that which cannot be seen, that
> >> which hears but that which cannot beheard, that which thinks but that
> which
> >> cannot be an object of thought, thatwhich knows but that which cannot be
> >> known. That is your own self, whichpervades everything as the
> substantive
> >> of all.
> >>
> >> It is adhiShTaanam forthe universe – the universe is adhyaasa or
> >> superimposition on the adhiShTaanamaatma that you are. It is like snake
> is
> >> adhyaasa on rope. Snake is mithyaa. Itis like the mirage waters on the
> >> dry-sand.
> >>
> >> The world is mithyaa. Thatis, it is only apparently existing but not
> >> really existing. That which changesis only experientially real or
> >> transactionally real but not really real. Henceit comes under neither
> real
> >> nor unreal, sat asat vilakshaNam. Since it isneither sat nor asat it is
> >> called mithyaa. Every mithyaa vastu or object musthave an adhiShTaanam
> or
> >> aadharam or support for its existence. I am, as
> >> pureexistence-consciousness, is the very substratum for everything and
> I am
> >> theprojector, sustainer, and experiencer (PSE) of the whole universe.
> The
> >> aboveBri. Up. mantras, for example, provides scriptural support.
> >>
> >> The world is mithyaa,and samsara, therefore, is also mithyaa. That which
> >> appears and experienced isnot really real but apparently real since it
> is
> >> ever-changing. When there issomething changing, then there must be a
> >> changeless entity with a reference to whichthe changes can be noticed.
> Thus
> >> there are two realities one changing entityand the other the changeless
> >> substratum that supports the changing entity. Theorder of reality,
> >> therefore, must differ between these two. For example, at therelative
> >> level, Gold is the changeless substratum in all changing ornaments,such
> as
> >> rings, bangles, etc. A ring can become a bangle, and a bangle canbecome
> a
> >> bracelet. However, as Gold, there is no change in these changes.
> Theorder
> >> of reality of ring, bangle, bracelet, etc., must be different from the
> >> Goldfrom which they came, by which they are sustained and into which
> they
> >> go back.Hence Gold is adhiShTaanam or substratum for all gold ornaments.
> >> Gold is morereal than the rings, bangles, etc, the forms that Gold
> appears.
> >> Names and formsof Gold are not gold as they are only appearances. The
> >> functions or utilitiesof these names and forms also do not belong to
> Gold.
> >> The gunas orattributes of a ring, bangle, etc that differentiate one
> form
> >> from the other donot belong Gold. The same principle applies to the
> world
> >> that involves namesand forms of all objects. These names and forms or
> >> attributes or gunas whichdifferentiate one from the other do not belong
> to
> >> the adhiShTaanam orsubstantive of these names and forms of objects of
> the
> >> world.
> >>
> >> From the scriptures, welearn that the adhiShTaanam or substratum for the
> >> entire universe is sat alone,which is really real as it is changeless.
> Any
> >> finite can undergo a change sinceit is finite. Only infinite cannot
> undergo
> >> a change. Hence sat is infinite.Infinite cannot exclude anything,
> therefore
> >> sat is the essence of everything.Infinite cannot be perceived.
> Therefore
> >> sat because of which the wholeworld exits is imperceptible.
> >> Elimination of mithyaais not possible. Samsaara is mithyaa, and
> therefore
> >> its elimination is notpossible. Then the very seeking for moksha is
> futile
> >> since it involves the eliminationof the limitations and thus samasaara.
> >> Hence the elimination of samsaara ornegation of the perceptual world is
> not
> >> possible since it is mithyaa. Seekingto eliminate samsaara is,
> therefore is
> >> wrong and illogical. In fact this notionthat I want to eliminate all my
> >> problems forms one of the biggest obstacles formoksha. Hence any
> pursuit to
> >> eliminate the samsaara, which is mithyaa is boundto fail since one is
> >> trying to eliminate that which has no reality of itsown.
> >>
> >>
> >> The very seeking toeliminate samsaara or the world of appearance by a
> >> process itself will resultin two problems.
> >>
> >> 1. Seeking will not besuccessful since one is trying to eliminate
> >> samsaara or limitations which arenot real.
> >> 2. More importantly, thevery effort to eliminate the mithyaa object or
> >> vastu gives more reality to themithyaa object. By the very process to
> >> eliminate that which is not real ormithyaa will only give more reality
> to
> >> it but also makes the problem moredifficult. It is similar to trying to
> >> kill the rope-snake that is perceived.Rope-snake cannot be killed by any
> >> means. And the very pursuit of killing therope-snake gives more reality
> to
> >> the snake than it deserves. Hence any pursuitto eliminate the rope-snake
> >> will bound to be a failure. What needs to beunderstood is that it is
> really
> >> rope, and there is no snake at the place andtime where the rope is.
> >>
> >> -----To be continued.
> >> Hari Om!
> >> Sadananda
> >> -----------------------------
> >>
> >>    On Sunday, 7 June, 2020, 09:45:28 am IST, Binod Singh via Advaita-l <
> >> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>  PraNAma,
> >>
> >> First of all, this group has done a wonderful job of explaining and
> >> propagating Advaita Vedanta and I really appreciate the passion and
> >> hardwork of all the members here. I hope for higher spiritual
> progression
> >> for everyone.. Gurprasaad.
> >>
> >> I am currently living in Canada and was supposed to go to India in April
> >> as
> >> my family is in Delhi. But due to this Corona, I don't see travelling
> for
> >> at least a year.
> >> I was planning to get the CDs on "vicAra Sagaram" by Swami
> ParamArthananda
> >> Saraswati ji from Sastraprakasika Trust in Chennai which runs
> >> vedantavidyarthisangha.org or yogamalika.org
> >>
> >> Unfortunately, they only deliver and transact in India only. I was
> hoping
> >> if someone has the MP3s and can forward it to me. I can pay the due
> amount
> >> as well by whatever means convenient . I have been waiting for a couple
> of
> >> years to get the pravachanam and I don't want to delay studying
> >> this grantha.
> >>
> >> Please let me know if you need any details from me.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Binod Singh
> >> _______________________________________________
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