chevendrakaushik at gmail.com
Thu Aug 13 00:01:08 EDT 2020
On Thu 13 Aug, 2020, 6:57 AM Srinath Vedagarbha via Advaita-l, <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 5:45 PM Shrinivas Gadkari <sgadkari2001 at yahoo.com>
> > Namaste Shri Srinath Vedagarbha,
> > What I have summarized is my understating - and very likely it is not
> > fully aligned with any standard school of thought. This is the
> > understanding
> > that I have arrived at based on my study and contemplation until now.
> > "identity+difference" that I am referring to:
> > One can use analogy of fire and spark here.
> > One can understand what fire (Ishvara) is by understanding spark (jIva),
> > Whatever tattva is in Ishvara same is to be found in jIva.
> > This is the similarity.
> > In Ishvara, each tattva is found it its grand state, in jIva it is in an
> > attenuated state.
> > This is the (big) difference.
> I agree with your analysis. But please note "similarity" and "identity" are
> totally different things. Jiva can be said to be "similar" to Brahman. In
> fact Dvaita accepts this sAdriShya (similarity) based on some common
> factors, such as both are sentients, both are jnyAna svarUpa (however much
> differentiation exists in its scale) etc.
> You may have to be precise in your position -- instead of saying
> "identity+difference", say "similarity+difference". But again, having the
> term "difference" would be superfluous as the term "similarity" already
> conveys two distinct entities.
> > One falls down (hell) not based on what viewpoint one subscribes to but
> > based on
> > what relationship one develops with Ishvara. jIva has to realize the
> > supreme efforts
> > that Ishvara is continually putting in for the sake of jIva-s and the
> > entire creation.
> > This realization should develop into gratitude and love. This is bhakti
> > its
> > pure form. With this form of bhakti in heart, hell is very difficult to
> > attain.
> Agree, but you are talking about who develops such bhakti. How do you
> explain the fact that what factors in the jIva which initiates/develops
> There are two options;
> 1. Due to anAdi karma cycle, a specific jIva may not have any bhakti in the
> current life term, but "would" develop eventually.
> 2. A jIva intrinsically self centered and does not care to have any bhakti
> or refuge in the Lord.
> Former position opens up further questions than it seeks to answer the
> first question. What factor(s) from anAdi time frame which influenced the
> behavior one way or the other? If you summon anAdi karama theory to explain
> this, then your proposition would run into infinite regress and the answer
> cannot be determined till infinite time. This is what nyAya calls anavasthA
> dOSha in an argument. Also, there are any shruti pramANa indicating jIva
> would acquire bhakti when it was absent to begin with.
> For the later position, the question would arise -- why some jIvas are evil
> by their own nature? Since we are talking about uncreated entities, the
> question on their very intrinsic nature is mute. We are not talking about
> acquired guNa-s but we are talking about intrinsic svabhAva. It is not that
> jIva exists with "blank canvas" first and later someone/something painted
> evil on it. The "sva" prefix in svabhAva indicates the self same nature.
> Hence, the question on the cause of evil is mute and only can be attributed
> to self same jIva. Lord is not responsible for making some jIva-s evil.
> This has been explored by BG in its doctrine of jIva trividya. Dvaita
> accepts this doctrine and hence you would find only vEdic school having the
> idea of eternal hell. It is the only school could able to answer big
> philosophical questions about the problem of evil.
> Advaita took altogether a different approach and explained away the
> problem of evil by denying Lord, jIva, bhakti, evil etc wholesale as
> mithya. Everyday experience of good and evil is totally remains
> unexplained. Who says advaita is anubhava siddha?
Please see into the archives sir. The problem of evil has been explained
before. I don't think the elders will answer this again.
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