[Advaita-l] MOKSHA or MUKTI

[H S Chandramouli]

Namaste Raghav Ji,

Yes. That is correct.

Regards

On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 5:22 PM Raghav Kumar Dwivedula via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Namaste Chandramouli ji
> You have expressed your perspective on this issue very unambiguously .
> "Brahmavidya culminates
> ONLY on attainment of such a status and not with the attainment of jnAna
> alone. "
>
> And elsewhere you also agreed with the idea that even after samyak GYAnam,
> there is a transitional phase before attaining jIvanmukti. In this
> transitional phase between GYAnam.and jIvanmukti, there could be vRttis
> opposed to GYAnam too which  might temporarily bother the GYAnI but they
> don't get the better of him.
>
> Would the above para faithfully represent what you have tried to say?
>
> Thank you
> Raghav
>
>
> On Wed 13 Feb, 2019, 6:52 PM H S Chandramouli via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org wrote:
>
> > Namaste Sri Bhaskar Ji,
> >
> > Reg  << one camp (the ‘is’ camp)  was saying during the post jnana period
> > (after samyak jnana / absolute realization) there is continuity of
> > identification with bhautika shareera by the jnAni and due to avidyA
> lesha
> > / prArabdha karma he is prone to get rAga-dvesha but survival of these
> > vrutti-s are very short (in time span) and his jnana would mitigate
> against
> > these bhAvana >>,
> >
> > While my understanding is generally in line with this, it is different in
> > respect of the succeeding part
> >
> > <<  If you want to have the absolute ‘freedom’ from these vrutti-s he has
> > to shed his mortal coil thence there is a gap between paramArtha jnana &
> > absolute mOksha >>.
> >
> >  It is not so. The jnAni can attain such “ freedom “ with the current
> body
> > itself. In fact in my understanding of the Bhashya, Brahmavidya
> culminates
> > ONLY on attainment of such a status and not with the attainment of jnAna
> > alone. That part of the sAdhana is temed vidvat sanyAsa. This state is in
> > the primary sense what is termed mOksha or kaivalya or vAishNavapada in
> > advaita sidhanta.
> >
> > Reg  << In short mind inert state samAdhi experience is mandatory to
> > ‘practically’ enjoy the ONENESS of Atman >>,
> >
> > Mind is not inert while enjoying ONENESS with the Atman. Rather it is
> more
> > appropriate to say scintillating rather than inert. I am inclined to
> > believe that the outpourings of the Shrutis themselves  were  perhaps
> when
> > the mantradrashtAs were in such a state only.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 12:29 PM Bhaskar YR via Advaita-l <
> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >
> > > praNAms Sri Venkatraghavan prabhuji
> > > Hare Krishna
> > >
> > >
> > >   *   I think one decade back we had debated ( not a friendly
> discussion
> > > at any stretch of imagination 😊  ) this topic viciously in both
> advaitin
> > > and Advaita-L group.  I doubt you were there at that time.  Though I
> dare
> > > not to say I have completely understood your explanation with regard to
> > > “is” and “no” in this context, it would be nice to see some fresh air
> to
> > > clear the dirt. Anyway, here is my thoughts if at all it is worthy :
> > >
> > > I think the argument between the two camps is because of a
> > > misunderstanding of the meaning of the words "is" and "no" in the above
> > > sentence.  Does the existence denoted by the verb "is", pAramArthika
> sat?
> > > Does the negation referred to by "no", a pAramArthika niShedha, or a
> > > vyAvahArika niShedha? As I see it, if both sides see what is meant,
> there
> > > is no room for argument at all.
> > >
> > > The right meaning of the sentence "there is only jnAna", is as an
> > > akhaNDArtha vAkya, and thus "is" and "jnAna" refer to the svArUpa mAtra
> > of
> > > That, and not to the samsarga between "jnAna" and "is". So the meaning
> of
> > > the sentence is just like satyam jnAnam anantam of taittiriya.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ø     To make a short summary of ‘is’ & ‘no’ in that discussion:  one
> > camp
> > > (the ‘is’ camp)  was saying during the post jnana period (after samyak
> > > jnana / absolute realization) there is continuity of identification
> with
> > > bhautika shareera by the jnAni and due to avidyA lesha / prArabdha
> karma
> > he
> > > is prone to get rAga-dvesha but survival of these vrutti-s are very
> short
> > > (in time span) and his jnana would mitigate against these bhAvana.  If
> > you
> > > want to have the absolute ‘freedom’ from these vrutti-s he has to shed
> > his
> > > mortal coil thence there is a gap between paramArtha jnana & absolute
> > > mOksha.  The another camp (the ‘no’ camp) clarifying their stand that
> > jnAni
> > > is ashareeri only since ashareeratvaM is his svarUpa jnana as he is
> > brahman
> > > here in this very life though he is looking like dehavAn : vidvAn sa
> > ehaiva
> > > brahma yadyapi dehavaaniva lakshyate sa brahmaiva san brahmApyeti.  So
> > > during the post jnana period though he is looking like sashareeri he is
> > not
> > > dehavAn hence no question of avidyA lesha,  no question of rAga-dvesha
> in
> > > him.  If at all it appears that he is engaging himself in questionable
> > > action, the socalled action and interpretation of it is only by  the
> > > ajnAni-s who donot think beyond BMI.  In short a strict NO NO to
> jnAni’s
> > > rAga-dvesha / avidyA lesha.  And linking continuation of shareera due
> to
> > > avidyAlesha and linking it with prArabdha karma and treating both
> > > avidyAlesha and prArabdha karma  as synonyms is quite untenable as
> there
> > is
> > > no direct link that can be established between jnAni’s action and his
> > > remnants  of avidyA.
> > >
> > > I agree. Any exhortation to do nothing but remain in samAdhi all the
> time
> > > is born out of a misunderstanding - for samAdhi is as much vyavahAra,
> as
> > > any other laukika activity.
> > >
> > >
> > > Ø     However, some stalwarts of Advaita sampradaya categorically
> > declared
> > > that shravaNAdi shAstra jnana is like an instruction manual helping the
> > > aspirant  to  understand the intricacies  of ‘swimming’ if you want to
> > > really experience the ‘joy’ of swimming you have to dive in the pool
> and
> > > swim.  In short mind inert state samAdhi experience is mandatory to
> > > ‘practically’ enjoy the ONENESS of Atman.  Hence shAstra vAkya janita
> > jnana
> > > is vrutti rUpa jnana and samAdhi is ‘phala rUpa jnAna’.
> > >
> > >
> > >   *   Hope I am not opening the can of worms once again here.
> > >
> > >
> > > Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
> > > bhaskar
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