[Advaita-l] Bhaagavata khandanam

[Gopal]

Raghavji,

Namaste. Thanks for your reply.

Unlike the shritis and smriti texts, my understanding is that the purana
texts come with some kind of inherent license for temporal expansions. It
appears to be a common feature for many of the puranas. The process of
expansions is not just insertion and interpolation, but more than that with
a theme and purpose.

Please scroll down the cited page to get to an article titled ' original
purana samhita' that gives an idea about this.

https://sites.google.com/ssvt.org/public-archive-publications/sahasra-chandi-mahotsavam-2019?authuser=0


If you Google 'david reigle' and 'puranas', u may find discussions on this
topic in a parallel list that would shed more light.
My reading of swamiji's intro was that there is much more than that catches
the eye and the three stage expansion model appears to be more in line with
the history of other texts.

In another mail, you had made a remark about srithara swamin and his
timing. It is believed he lived after Sri madhwachwrya of dwaita sampradaya
who peaked between 1250s to 1310s. M had written bhagavata tatparya
nirnaya. So SS was not the earliest commentator, as you were asking about.
This is just a food for ur thought. A relevant question to ask would be why
acharya madhwa choose to do this work at par with his Mahabharata and
ramayana tatparya nirnaya works unless it was already a primary text in his
times. He was born 100 years after the siddhi of Sri Ramanuja. I have not
read this work so am not sure which version of bhagavata text he used.

Sincerely,
..gopal





On Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 8:57 PM Raghav Kumar Dwivedula via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Namaste Gopal ji
>  Thanks so much for sharing that pdf. I agree that 'authored' is not the
> best word to describe the southern indian origin of the extant version of
> the srimad-bhagavatam. I was recollecting from 20 year old memories hence
> the imprecision.
>
> Interestingly, Swami Tapasyanandaji while giving much more detail about its
> origin also goes on to say (the words are in quotes in your pdf and i am
> assuming they are his words) that
> "It is evident from this that the (Vaishnava)
> Bhagavata, as it exists today, has been *thoroughly revised* by some
> unknown savant of South India
> imbued with the devotional fervour of the Alwars. Though versions of the
> Bhagavata *might have been*
> in existence earlier, the *last editor of it must have recast it
> radically*."
>
> So 'radical-recaster' or 'thorough-reviser' would be more appropriate to
> describe the southern indian scholar who introduced numerous verses of his
> own in to a presumably older edition.
>
>
> Om
> Raghav
>
> On Sat, 28 Dec, 2019, 10:22 PM Gopal via Advaita-l, <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
> >  Namaste,
> >
> > > One related bit of information - Swami Tapasyananda of RK Mission in
> his
> > long introduction to his English translation of the srimad (Krishna)
> > bhagavatam writes that a post-Ramanuja (i e., post 11th century )
> southern
> > > Indian author composed it.
> >
> > I went back to the introduction after your email as my recollection was
> not
> > as stated above, in particular, the highlighted phrase.  Swamiji clearly
> > implies an editor or someone from south, plausibly, had a hand in the
> > elaboration.  This is different from 'authoring' a work
> >
> > Also, the section on the history of Bhagavata by Swamiji is more nuanced
> > than it is portrayed in some emails. So, I created a pdf of the screen
> > shots of that section for the sake of accuracy in lieu of subjective
> > paraphrasing. Please follow the link to view this pdf ( (i have to edit
> the
> > odd typography due to conversion from one to another format). One can
> also
> > go to amazon.com, search for the kindle edition of the book, click on
> the
> > 'Look inside' and scroll to the page.
> > https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nSoOpi08ffDTpE2KGH5o32voQGxDde7D
> >
> > Oxford University had a bhagavata research group for a critical edition
> and
> > I understand they had collected enormous amount of information various
> > versions. Not sure of any publications from that group yet.
> >
> > Hope this helps
> >
> > ..gopal
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 25, 2019 at 6:12 AM Raghav Kumar Dwivedula via Advaita-l <
> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Namaste Jaldhar ji
> > > I have read that not only Sri Shankara but also Sri Ramanuja has not
> > quoted
> > > a single reference from the Srimad-bhagavatam.
> > >
> > > Two major Acharya's before 1100 AD have made no mention whatsoever. The
> > > latter particularly would have found many agreeable Vaishnava ideas
> there
> > > to substantiate his viewpoint.
> > >
> > >
> > > One related bit of information - Swami Tapasyananda of RK Mission in
> his
> > > long introduction to his English translation of the srimad (Krishna)
> > > bhagavatam writes that a post-Ramanuja (i e., post 11th century )
> > southern
> > > Indian author composed it.  He suggests that the nucleus of the tenth
> > canto
> > > describing the life of Krishna is much older. But the extant version of
> > the
> > > text is most likely to be post-Ramanuja. This is just fyi.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Om
> > >
> > > Raghav
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, 25 Dec, 2019, 1:02 PM Jaldhar H. Vyas via Advaita-l, <
> > > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Another old post I didn't respond to at the time...
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, 18 Jul 2019, V Subrahmanian wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > This is not just one article refuting the idea that the
> > > Srimadbhagavatam
> > > > is
> > > > > not the 'real' Bhagavatam but the Devi Bhagavatam is the true
> > > Bhagavatam
> > > > > composed by Veda Vyasa.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Even when Aryasamajist filth give correct information it is for
> > nefarious
> > > > purposes.  That Dayananda cared not a whit for the Devi Bhagavata or
> > > > Krishna Bhagavata.  He just wants to slander the authority of Puranas
> > in
> > > > favor of his fantasy version of Vedas.
> > > >
> > > > > There is a popular opinion that the former is a  much later work,
> > > > > attributed to one 'Vopadeva.'
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I wouldn't call it popular.  This was a spat between two factions of
> > > > Pandits in 17th century Kashi only.  Several Sanskrit pamphlets and
> > > > broadsides from the disputants survive and it is interesting to note
> > that
> > > > several of the authors in the pro-Krishnabhagavata camp are
> themselves
> > > > Smartas not Vaishnavas.
> > > >
> > > > As you yourself have pointed out there is much Advaitic material in
> the
> > > > (Krishna) Bhagavata itself.  And we also discussed in this list that
> > the
> > > > earliest commentators on that work are Advaitins.  Shridhara Swami
> who
> > is
> > > > considered the preeminent interpreter by no less than Chaitanya
> himself
> > > > was Shankaracharya of Puri. He mentions Chitsukhacharya and
> Punyaranya
> > as
> > > > predecessors though their commentaries no longer survive.
> > Shankaracharya
> > > > is said to have quoted from the Bhagavata in a couple of his
> > prakaranas.
> > > > Many North Indian Vaishnavas even believe he wrote a commentary.
> > > >
> > > > Vopadeva was a protege of Hemadri acharya author of the influential
> > > > dharmashastra nibandha called chaturavarga chintamani (thoroughly
> > Smarta
> > > > and Advaitic in ethos) and the minister to the last two Rajas of
> > Devagiri
> > > > (modern Daulatabad Maharashtra) before that kingdom was destroyed by
> > > > Muslim invaders in the 13th century.  The Devagiri royal family
> > belonged
> > > > to Yadava vamsha and considered themselves to be descendents of
> Krishna
> > > > Bhagavan so it natural they would have comissioned works that honored
> > > > their ancestor.  Vopadeva wrote Muktaphala which is a collection of
> > > > subhashitas from the Bhagavata and Harililamrta which is a concise
> > > summary
> > > > of the contents of that Purana. Hemadri acharya wrote tikas on both
> > > texts.
> > > > There is a third work Paramahamsapriya which deals with difficult
> > > > grammatical constructions in the Bhagavata.  This is the source of
> the
> > > > theory that Vopadeva wrote the Bhagavata itself but obviously neither
> > > work
> > > > could have been written unless the Bhagavata was already in
> existence.
> > > >
> > > > Vopadeva wrote on other shastras too and one grammatical work of his
> > > > called Mugdabodha became very popular in Bengal especially because it
> > was
> > > > easier than Panini.  Probably as a result his other works became well
> > > > known in that area as well.  We know that the origins of the Gaudiyas
> > are
> > > > in renagade branch of Dashanami sannyasis of Bengal.  It is possible
> > that
> > > > as an Advaitin with great love for Krishna, Vopadevas works may have
> > > > inadvertantly fueled that break.  On the other hand we have Swami
> > > > Madhusudana Saraswati who was also Bengali, a Krishnabhakta, and
> > > > influenced by Vopadeva but remained firmly in the Advaita camp.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>
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