[Advaita-l] Dayanand Saraswathi interview - Very interesting stand taken by Swami
kripa.shankar.0294 at gmail.com
Fri Jan 20 02:47:43 CST 2017
Apologies for the delayed response. From what we know, there are broadly two ways for a sadhaka. One is to follow the varna Ashrama dharma as per the rules. But due to various reasons, it is not possible for everyone to follow it, like lack of a home, wife etc. In such a case, they don't belong to any Ashrama (even varna doesn't matter in such a case). However, as per the rules, even they are eligible for Moksha. The path laid out for them is : upavasa, japa, dhyana, daiva aradhana, Mouna (or nyasa) etc. It is basically tapasya. So we already have quite sophisticated system, wherein all exceptions are duly considered.
Now all this is for ajnanis. The only scenario which is not included above is that of a jnAni by birth. Now this is an oxymoron in itself because a jnani should not have rebirth as per the definition. The examples given below are in no relation to the case of RM imho. For instance, in the case of Raikva, the King hears about him from swans:). Whether it's an allegory or did people back in day had skills to decipher swans, we do not know. All the examples given, justifications rather, are riddled with such outlandish comparisons. It should also be noted here that, this is not an obscure thing. For eg, How did everyone come to know the secret of Karna's birth? It was because of sages like Vyasa and narada. Narada narrates a divine reason for Karna's birth to pacify Yudhishthira who was disturbed to know that Karna was his elder brother. So it is indeed possible for sages to have a yogic vision and only such personages of extraordinary sight (a Rishi) can conclude if a person who hasn't followed any rules of conduct(if there is such a one) is a jnani or not.
In such cases, the answer will be a certain yes or a no. Because the Rishis don't say anything worthless even in jest. All these examples are such. As for the ajnanis are concerned, we have to follow either of the paths. If someone claims that I became a jnani just like that or if even the whole world says so, we have to resort to shastras alone for conclusions. If we start building castles in the air, such a sophisticated system of Vedanta will fall flat on it s face and merge with the nAstika school of nondualism.
yo vedAdau svaraH prokto vedAnte cha pratiShThitaH |
tasya prakRRiti-lInasya yaH parassa maheshvaraH ||
From: Bhaskar YR
Sent: Tuesday 17 January 2017 3:32 PM
To: Kripa Shankar; A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta; kuntimaddi sadaanda
Subject: RE: [Advaita-l] Dayanand Saraswathi interview - Very interesting stand taken by Swami
You got me wrong. I was just wondering if someone being a Jnani / jivanmukta can be determined or not. I also gave a reason that, if we can't determine if a person is jivanmukta or not, then it becomes an abstract idea. Moksha will become a speculation.
praNAms Sri Kripa prabhuji
paramArtha jnana, jnAni's lakshaNa, mOksha etc. are not abstract ideas since these are all Upanishad pratipAdita. There is a clear definition about jnana phala (clearing the knots of hrudaya, getting rid of all saMshaya etc.) and shankara in sUtra bhAshya says jnAni himself knows whether he is jnAni or not since it is (jnana) his hrudaya spandana and nobody can deny it or doubt it. However, identifying a particular person as jnAni, jeevanmukta etc. by others is purely a subjective opinion. A jnAni like ramaNa might not be a shrOtreeya in his current janma, but his followers, who want to be in the traditional boundaries, would believe that he was shrotreeya and might have completed the formalities of shAstrAdhyayana (shravaNAdi sAdhana in traditional style) in his pUrva jaNma and that sAdhana fructified when he posed a question to himself about 'death' and instantly become brahmanishTa. Scriptures / shankara bhAshya too have the references for this type of jnAni-s like in vAmadeva, dharmavyAdha, vidhura and some atyAshrami-s like raikva, vAchaknavi. However, to our bewilderment, jnAni-s like ramaNa sometime advises to pour the kerosene on the caravan of ants at the ashrama, a jnAni like bhagavatpAda, might have lost himself in the body of king, a parama jnAni like geetAchArya even after giving geetOpadesha, may lose his cool and ready to throw his sudarshana in anger :-) And for these strange behavior of jnAni-s, tradition has the justification in the form of 'prArabdha karma' and avidyA lesha and 'time gap' between jnAnOtpatti and absolute mOksha ( mukhya mukti). And there is a chance to beat the jnana by prabala karma (labdha vrutteH karmaNO baleeyastvAt) due to which sometime even jnAni-s also would behave like any ordinary ajnAni-s as their vAngmanaH kAya would continue to function normally. So, we have plenty of shAstra sammata justification / clarification in tradition to defend someone who we subjectively accept as jnAni or otherwise.
Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
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