[Advaita-l] A question on PariNAma and vivarta

Praveen R. Bhat bhatpraveen at gmail.com
Wed Feb 8 04:47:10 CST 2017

Namaste Sadaji,

On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 1:38 PM, kuntimaddi sadananda <
kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I feel everyone missed -  the relevance of question, in relation to the
> Ch. 13 of Panchadashi - entitled brahmanande aatmananda.
Perhaps a typo, you meant advaitAnanda.

I think now I missing the point you're trying to make. Its surprising to
see that you are pointing out everyone is missing your question after 40
odd mails on the thread! Let me restate the problems raised by you, at
least that is what I understood and replied earlier. Panchadashikara quotes:

1)  "मृत्कुम्भ and सुवर्णकुण्डल as examples for परिणाम्युपादान instead of
2) रज्जुसर्प as विवर्तोपादान which is प्रातिभासिक।

On the 2nd point, you wondered if there is any Upanishad that covers it and
I named a few. On the 1st point, I will try to see it in the context of the
chapter that you are specifically showing it to be out of place perhaps...


> I am fully aware of the parinmana and vivara  aspects - we are not
> discussing here the general definitions but specifics in relation to the
> title of the chapter
The example is very much in the context of the chapter, but I understood
that you made a very generic statement yourself that "he provides the next
two example from Ch. Up which actually (in my understanding) should belong
to vivarta. The next examples provided in the above sloka is - just as clay
becoming pot and gold becoming ornament."

Even in the context of the chapter, Maya is introduced later after
establishing आनन्द itself as the उपादानकारण of the world. And as I said
earlier, the definition we have for परिणाम and विवर्त may not be exactly so
in that context. 13.8 defines परिणाम as अवस्थान्तरतापत्तिरेकस्य परिणामिता
and 13.9 defines विवर्त as अवस्थान्तरभानं तु विवर्तः which restricts the
example only to that, which व्याख्या also explains that deviation from
earlier state so for परिणाम-- यथा क्षीरमृत्सुवर्णादीनां
क्षीरादिव्यवहारयोग्यतां परित्यज्य दध्यादिव्यवहारयोग्यतापत्तिः। Just as curd
does not remain in the same state as to make milk-like transactions with
anymore, so too pot and bangle cannot be treated exactly like clay and gold
in transactions, respectively. That much is the example for categorisation.

and its contents and in relation to Vedanta.
I would say that I was connecting it to Vedanta alone, while you seem to be
connecting it to science also. Considering that, I'll skip a para...

> ...

> We can come up justifications why he lists gold-ring as parinaama  along
> with milk-curds in the beginning and later exhaustively analyzes
> differentiating them as vivarta and parinaama.  My word was 'I was puzzled
> by this'.
We don't need to come up with justifications, Vidyaranya Muni himself
expected this getting puzzled. Please refer to shloka 13.51. which says:
क्षीरादौ परिणामोऽस्तु पनस्तद्भाववर्जनात्। एतावता मृदादीनां दृष्टान्तत्वं न
हीयते। The व्याख्या explains this further as: एतावता क्षीरादेः परिणामित्वेन
मृदादीनां सुवर्णादीनां दृष्टान्तत्वं विवर्तदृष्टान्तभावो न हीयते न नश्यति।
अयमभिप्रायः -- क्षीरस्य
मृत्स्य्वर्णयोस्तु अवस्थान्तरोत्पत्तिसद्भावेऽपि
Please note the specific words एवकार with milk-curd example and usage of
अपि with clay-pot and ornament-gold
that makes it clear that while the milk-curd example is only for परिणाम,
the latter two fit with both, bringing me back to my earlier response as to
going with only the commonality between the example and exemplified.

If you are happy with your explanations, that is fine.
Sadaji, the explanation given was not for my happiness although आत्मनस्तु
कामाय सर्वं प्रियं भवति :)

> Here as Vidyaji  points out that we are only dealing with upaadanana
> kaaraNa where sruti statement itself applies. Abhinna nimitta upaadana
> kaaraNam comes later with Ikshata statement.
By the starting verses of the 13th chapter, it appears that Vidyaranya Muni
is indicating अभिन्ननिमित्तोपादानकारण because he starts with आनन्द as
उपादान itself.


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