[Advaita-l] dRShTi-sRShTi definitions in the advaitasiddhi
anandhudli at hotmail.com
Mon Aug 14 23:27:26 EDT 2017
> But prabhuji, you said that Ishwara does not forms a part of DSV (jeeva
kalpita or jeeva srushti) along with other five including shuddha Chaitanya.
There are variations of DSV. PrakAshAnanda holds that avidyA is responsible
for creation. Even in that case, Ishvara can be equated to shuddha
chaitanya, which is not jIva-kalpita. One of the six anAdis is jIva-Ishvara
bheda and it will still hold (until realization) if Ishvara is taken to be
> And finally one more important and final question with regard to DSV.
Whether the 'drushti' which is the hetu (kAraNa) for the srushti in this
prakriya pertains to avidyA saMyukta jeeva / bhrAnta jeeva or
avidyAvinirmukta nitya shuddha Buddha mukta Ishwara?? Here jeeva denotes
parichinna Chaitanya with upAdhi or Ishwara with vishesha upAdhi ?? If
this whole DSV prakriya based on bhrAnta jeeva srushti. Then I am afraid
this prakriya cannot be reconciled with shruti, yukti and anubhava.
It is not the case that a bhrAnta-jIva is responsible for sRShTi. shuddha
brahman in association with ajnAna gets jIva-hood and creates, again with
avidyA playing a crucial role. This is not a sequential process, in the
sense brahman becomes a jIva first and then creates the world. Both steps
are simultaneous, since Time itself is part of the creation. There have
been discussions before on Time as an Illusion.
There are different versions of DSV-eka-jIva-vAda as explained by appayya
dIkShita in his siddhAnta-lesha-saMgraha. However, the prominent among
them is the one put forth by PrakAshAnanda in his
vedAntasiddhAntamuktAvalI. According to this view, the
nityashuddhamuktasvabhAva Brahman, in association with ajnAna, attains the
state of jIva (ajnAnamAshritya jIvabhAvaM labdhvA), and creates (imagines)
the bodies of Gods, animals, humans, etc. and also creates the entire
universe with the fourteen worlds (brahmANDAdicaturdahsabhuvanaM sRShTvA).
Among those bodies, one is a God, one a human, one Hiranyagarbha the
Creator of all (teShu teShu deheShu kashcit devaH kashcit manuShyaH kashcit
hiraNyagarbhaH sarveShAM sraShTA). One is Vishnu the Protector and one is
Rudra the Destroyer of all during Pralaya (kashcit VishNuH pAlakaH kashcit
anyaH sarvasaMhArakartA rudraH pralaye)... I the son of a Brahmin, having
served the Gods with Bhakti consisting of pUjA, namaskAra, etc., and having
earned the sAdhanas such as shravaNa, manana, and nididhyAsana, will attain
liberation (ahaM punaH kashcit brAhmaNakumAraH teShAm bhaktiM
pUjAnamaskArAdinA anuShThAya shravaNAdi sAdhanaM sampAdya mokShaM
sAdhayiShyAmi iti). Thus, the jIva, although Ishvara (Brahman) himself
becomes deluded in the waking state (Ishvaro .api san bhrAnto bhavati
On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 7:01 PM, Anand Hudli <anandhudli at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Shri Praveenji,
> > They could be shown to be mithyA, not from DSV viewpoint but due to
> > having dRshyatva, etc. anAdyavidyAnAM dRShTi-sRShTitvena mithyAtva-abhAve
> > api dRshyatvAdihetunA eva teShAM mithyAtvasiddheriti.
> >Anandji, Why can't dRshyatva as a hetu be within DSV here?
> Perhaps my message was not clear, but I didn't mean to say dRshyatva
> cannot be used as a hetu within DSV. It is purely because the six entities
> are anAdi, they will not have any sRShTi. This being the case, it is not
> possible to show their mithyAtva using the DSV argument's hetu of being
> created only due to cognition and not existent otherwise. Another way of
> looking at it would be that five of the six entities (other than
> shuddhacit) are either avidyA or are defined in terms of avidyA and hence
> cannot be real. This reasoning is common to both SDV and DSV.
> >Also earlier, my post came out as a statement, but I meant to ask a
> question, sorry. Couldn't the pointed flaw be turned around on the
> purvapakShin who points out that jIva can't be a sRShTikartA, because he
> has no choice of creation, since Ishvara also creates as per the jIvakarma,
> not as per His whims? If its a doSha, its equal in DSV and SDV.
> saMskArajanitA dRShTi eva sRShTirbhavati iti.
> Actually, it is not that jIva has no choice of creation, but he has no
> shakti or capability to undertake the creation task, and once creation
> happens, he does not have full control over it. Madhusudana addresses this
> issue in DSV, saying it is not just the jIva alone who creates this
> creation but it is the avidyA shakti that makes the (big) difference. So in
> a sense, it is possible to view avidyA as reigning over creation. However,
> due to reasons mentioned earlier, an Ishvara is accepted as part of the
> DSV. Now, it is debatable what exactly this Ishvara is responsible for in
> DSV. One may note that certain shruti/smRti statements such as mAyAM tu
> prakRtiM vidyAn mAyinaM tu maheshvaram and paritrANAya sAdhUnAM... etc
> point to a Controller role for Ishvara or it could just be that Ishvara is
> the shuddha caitanya, as accepted in the bhAmatI. In the first case, saguNa
> upAsana of Ishvara is possible, while in the second case, one pursues
> strictly the jnAnamarga with the objective of realizing Ishvara.
> Traditionally, many of our AchAryas have been upAsakas at some point or the
> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 2:03 PM, Anand Hudli <anandhudli at hotmail.com>
>> > Let me refer to this as DSV(MS). This clearly admits three levels of
>> > Reality, PAramArthika/PrAtibhAsika/Mithya. Definitely not the type
>> > discussed all along here where only two levels were considered. I am not
>> > sure if this is what Praveen Ji intended in his presentations. He may
>> > to clarify/confirm.
>> It is not the same as three levels of reality, rather the six entities
>> are said to be anAdi, without a beginning. Appayya dIkShita also mentions
>> this and justifies it, not surprisingly, using the dream analogy. In a
>> dream, it is possible that some objects are pre-existing while others are
>> created as they are seen. So there is no contradiction with the two orders
>> of reality maintained by DSV.
>> > While only six entities are mentioned, it is to be noted that avidya has
>> > infinite number of parts.Since combination of avidya and cit is also
>> > covered in the six, there are practically infinite number of entities
>> > admitted. In fact satyAnRtamithunIkaraNa covers entire charAchara
>> > srishti. All this will be mithya and not prAtibhAsika.
>> The combination of avidyA and cit is anAdi but this anAditva cannot be
>> extended to anything else where avidyA may play a role. It is only the
>> combination that is anAdi, not the resulting effects. If that is not the
>> case, DSV becomes a mockery of a theory, not even worth studying! It is
>> erroneous to argue that the whole world is an effect of the combination of
>> Brahman as the substratum and avidyA which projects the world and hence the
>> world is outside the scope of dRShTi-sRShTi. The world is definitely
>> subject to dRShTi-sRShTi and that is precisely why Jagat is not included in
>> the list of six anAdi's. I am not interested in arguing further on this
>> > Also, has Sri MS stipulated to only one jIva in his analysis. This
>> > please be confirmed. I am not sure if all the above is admitted or
>> > intended. Else whether my understanding of the above is wrong.
>> The discussion on DSV is followed by the ekajIva vAda discussion. The DSV
>> discussion is independent of EJV or NJV, although it makes more sense to
>> assume EJV. Towards the end of the discussion, Madhusudana replies to an
>> objection regarding DSV that implies EJV.
>> > Sidhantaleshasamgraha refers to two versions of DSV. One is mentioned as
>> > that of Sri Prakashananda as in Vedanta Sidhantamuktavali. Is the other
>> > DSV(MS) ?. Or is it a third one.
>> Madhusudana does not exclusively deal with the first type of DSV, ie.
>> dRShTi-samakAlIna-sRShTi in his discussion, since there is a reference to
>> dRShTi itself being sRShTi, which is the second type.
>> >In continuation, has Sri MS, in any of his other works, presented any
>> version of DSV ?
>> siddhAntabindu and vedAntakalpalatikA are two works of Madhusudana
>> wherein DSV is also discussed.
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