[Advaita-l] Shruti prAmANya and jnAna
v.subrahmanian at gmail.com
Tue Oct 4 12:41:41 CDT 2016
On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 10:33 PM, Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> Namaste Raghav ji,
> Thanks for that very clear email.
> "In my present state of understanding, that svataHprAmAnyam of
> shabdapramANa is sufficient for akhanDAkAra vRtti in the case of the
> uttamAdhikArI, appears reasonable."
There is a story about Janaka's enlightenment. I shall quote from the book
'Divine Discourses' - a compilation, in translation, of the benedictory
addresses of Jagadguru Sri Abhinava Vidyatirtha Mahaswaminaḥ of Sringeri.
(Published by Sri Vidyatirtha Foundation, Chennai).
This excerpt is from the chapter 'Greatness of Shankara's life and
Teachings.' - p.179-80:
तद्विज्ञानार्थं स गुरुमेवाभिगच्छेत् समित्पाणिः श्रोत्रियं ब्रह्मनिष्ठम् । -
The seeker of knowledge of the Truth has necessarily to approach, with
reverence, a Guru who is a knower of the scriptures and is established in
If a man tries to know the Truth on his own by simply reading books, he
will not be successful. Consider the case of a person who has approached a
Guru and carried out intense spiritual discipline in an earlier birth but
failed to get the realization of the Truth before passing away. Such a
person would easily get knowledge in his next birth. In exceptional cases,
he may not even require a Guru. In the Upashānti Prakaranam of the Yoga
Vāsiṣṭham there is a story relating to how King Janaka of Videha obtained
knowledge without formal instruction from a Guru. Janaka was walking alone
in a grove near his palace, when he heard a song sung by several Siddhas.
The song propounded the Truth. For instance, one of the verses that he
द्रष्ट्रुदर्शनदृश्यानि त्यक्त्वा वासनया सह
दर्शनप्रथमाभासमात्मानं समुपास्महे ||
Renouncing completely the ‘perceiver-perceiving-perceived’
along with the Vaasanaa, we resort to the ‘Self’,
which is the root consciousness beyond objectification.
On hearing the song, he automatically and straightaway became enlightened.
In the Veda, we hear of Vāmadeva who obtained the realization of the Truth
even when he was lying in his mother's womb.
*[See Siddha gita here:
>From the above we come to know that the vākya that triggers the vṛtti need
not be directly from the Shruti; any sentence that conveys the purport
thereof is sufficient. Also, the sentence need not be in any particular
language like Sanskrit; it could be any other language that is capable of
conveying the meaning to the person involved. It need not be a vocative one
heard from 'outside'; it could be one that arises from inside as well. All
that is required is that it should be capable of triggering the vṛtti.
Dakṣināmūrti's mere silence with the chinmudrā is another example.
> I agree - this was pretty much the sum of my argument earlier. I however,
> did not introduce the condition of adhikAri bheda because the focus of the
> argument was on the vastu tantratva of jnAna.
> On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 4:32 PM, Raghav Kumar Dwivedula <
> raghavkumar00 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Namaste Venkatraghavan ji
> > On 04-Oct-2016 7:08 pm, "Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l" <
> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > Namaste Praveenji,
> > >
> > > On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 1:42 PM, Praveen R. Bhat <bhatpraveen at gmail.com
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > > If the pramAta, pramANa and prameya, are appropriately aligned,
> > knowledge
> > > >> is automatically generated. Now, the pramAta may refuse to accept
> > > >> generated knowledge as pramA, or take efforts to preserve the
> > knowledge
> > > >> generated; however, the capacity of the pramANa to generate the
> > > >> vritti is a given.
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > The answer, IMO, lies in the definition of pramAtR/ प्रमाता, else
> > > > would arise even without साधनचातुष्टयसम्पत्ति। One of the
> > qualifications is
> > > > श्रद्धा, which although defined by तत्त्वबोध as गुरुवेदान्तवाक्येषु
> > > > विश्वासः, its not just a belief. It has to grow into प्रामाण्यबुद्धि।
> > For
> > > > श्रवण to take place, there has to be तात्पर्यनिर्णय। Without that,
> > ज्ञान
> > > > cannot arise.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, unless the pramAta has the qualifications for knowledge, pramA
> > will
> > > not arise - some jnAna (even bhrama may arise). shruti prAmANya-buddhi
> > must
> > > also definitely be there. However, even that prAmANya-buddhi is based
> > > certain basic axioms that need to be accepted for that prAmANya-buddhi
> > > arise. And I believe it is to cultivate a belief in these axioms that
> > > shraddhA is talked about.
> > >
> > > And even if some form of ज्ञानवृत्ति is formed, it is not अखण्ड।
> > > > as you say the person may reject it perhaps as भ्रम। At most it may
> > become
> > > > some kind of impression for स्मृति।
> > > >
> > > > I have to think about why you say the jnAna vritti is not akhaNda.
> > > mull over it.
> > >
> > It may be of interest that the alignment or conformity of the vRtti
> > generated in the mind when mahAvAkya is heard (with prAmAnya buddhi),
> > vis-a-vis the shruti's (Guru's) true intention, can vary between
> > 1. Virochana's bhrama GYAna (although he had prAmAnya buddhi in the
> > preceptor ).
> > 2. injunction to meditate upAsitavyam -vRtti (the mImAmsaka-s had
> > prAmANya buddhi in veda but read into the mahAvAkya an injunction to
> > meditate 'ahambrahmAsmi iti upAsIta' )
> > 3. the true import of the mahAvAkya viz., grasped by akhanDAkAra vRtti.
> > Well maybe Virochana was not exactly taught the mahAvAkya, but i think
> > get the general idea.
> > The degree of antahkaraNashuddhi, if its of a high order, the resistance
> > to owning up that 'aham brahmAsmi' is almost absent.
> > Why should the akhanDAkAra vRtti not arise? Because the shruti's true
> > intention is aikyArtha alone. So there is no pramANa doSha. That leaves
> > only the pramatR antaHkaraNa as having the obstacles to artha sphuraNa.
> > can ask this question and work backwards and see that resistive obstacles
> > like arthasya asambhAvanA will be not strongly felt if there is a shuddha
> > antaHkaraNa which is not strongly identified with the vyaShTi upAdhi. (As
> > in, how can i, a humbLe simbLe person, be brahman?!)
> > And if there is no pre-existing theological religious baggage in the mind
> > then ideas such as 'shruti says something else somewhere else or some
> > has said something theological which i believe about God' etc will also
> > not to be there in a fresh mind and so shrutyanekatA will not be there,
> > temporarily at least. And same goes for dehAtmavAsana and other
> > I agree that a person need not know all about the process of knowledge
> > how phalavyApti is not there etc., to get the appropriate vRtti.
> > In sum, if a kSheeNakalmaSha student is exposed to mahAvAkya, there are
> > reasons why the akhaNDAkAra vRtti can't arise. Whether the pramA
> > by the vRtti will survive the further experiences and vicAra based on
> > pramANa-s is another question. Perhaps as Sri LalitAlAlitaH ji (nearly)
> > quoted, the one who respects his experience will not fall. (I have
> > modified it).
> > Actually this entire aspect was brought up by him when he said
> > svataHprAmANyam will have to be backed up by yukti etc.
> > In my present state of understanding, that svataHprAmAnyam of
> > shabdapramANa is sufficient for akhanDAkAra vRtti in the case of the
> > uttamAdhikArI, appears reasonable. The yukti and further shravaNam etc is
> > only required to protect the vRtti-janita pramA after it has arisen.
> > Otherwise the one who does not respect his experience falls... seems
> > Om
> > Raghav
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