[Advaita-l] [advaitin] Why only jagat is mithya and jeeva is brahman !!??

[Bhaskar YR]

praNAms Sri Venkatraghavan prabhuji
Hare Krishna

Is seeing a mirage of water in sand, perception? By your logic, just because one continues to see the water (even though one knows its only sand), the water is real. Knowing it is a mirage does not make water disappear, but does it's lack of disappearance preclude it's mithyAtvam?

Ø   This is where shankara clarifies that this prAtibhAsika satya (pls. again note it is not mithyA) though different from vyAvahArika satya it has its base in satya!! It is because mirage would happen based on the natural laws and it is not ‘avidyAkalpita’ mithyA of any one particular individual.  For each and every one, if they see the hot sand (which is nothing but pancheekruta pruthvi)  from certain distance,  they would invariably see the water only though they know the uselessness of this prAbhAsika satya of ‘mirage’ water from the vyAvahArika point of view.  In this way, the AdhAra for both vyAvahArika and prAtibhAsika satyam-s is nothing but that parabrahman only hence it is called prAtibhAsika and vyAvahArika satya not mithyA.  Satyancha anrutancha satyamabhavat, yadidam kiMcha, tatsatyAmithyAchakshate so says taitireeya.

Not true. Sunrise and sunset is always available to the eyes' perception, but the sun does not move in reality. Even after knowing the truth about the lack of reality of a sunrise or sunset, one continues to perceive it. So onset of jnAna does not mean one stops "seeing" mithyA vastu - it means that one realises that what one sees isn't real. Seeing is not proof of reality.



Ø     Yes, this is what I was saying.  Sunrise and sunset is pratyaksha pramANita whereas immovability of sun is the jnana that has been gained from shAstra.  The shAstra jnana DOEST NOT change the pratyaksha pramANIta movement of sun but that jnana teaches though you are seeing the movement of Sun, Sun is constant and earth is moving.  Movement of Sun is the vishaya of pratyaksha, teaching the stability of sun is the vishaya of shAstra.  Likewise, after having the brahmaikatva jnana, jnAni does see the vikAra (nAma rUpa which is the vishaya of pratyaksha) despite  his realization of sAmAnya (which is the vishaya of Agama) in vikAra.  It is like a professional jeweler seeing the(sAmAnya)  ‘gold’ in  all the (vishesha-s) ornaments.    jnApakaM hi shAstraM na tu kArakaM.  shAstra would only explain WHAT IS there actually, it does not have the capacity to create anything afresh or destroy anything that already exists.  Shankara is very clear on this topic.

JnAna arises in the mind, so it can only remove it's opposite, ajnAna, in the same locus where it arises - viz the mind. According to advaita, the world is a projection not of the mind, but of avidyA.

Ø     Prabhuji, IMHO, this jagat for which brahman is the abhinnanimittOpadAna kAraNa (for the Nth time repeating  :-) hence cannot be a projection of avidyA.  avidyA is jeevAshrita whereas mAya is brahmAshrita and in its Shakti svarUpa mAya is abhinna from brahma.  But yes, for the jagat srushti, Ishwara takes jeevas’ avidyA as preraka..The avidyAtmaka jeeva-s should get a right platform to enjoy/suffer their respective karma phala.  And this platform (jagat) has been created by Ishwara using his Shakti and sarvajnatva.  And this vishama srushti is for jeeva-s created by Ishwara and it is not mere projection of avidyA.  Shankara clarifies like this with regard to srushti : sarva vedAnteshu cha Ishwara hetukA eva srushtayO vyapadishyante.

So the rise of jnAna in the mind which itself is a product of avidyA, does not destroy the world, it only destroys the notion of reality ascribed to the world by the mind.

Ø   jnana  only destroys the notion of independent reality ascribed to the world by jeeva due to his ajnAna / avidyA.  And that jnana does not do any harm to the jagat and jnAni’s BMI because his shareera no more shareera, his jagat is no more independent jagat coz. The jnAni is ashareeri only in him there is prapancha pravilayaM in Atmaikatva rUpaM.

With this I will shut up as promised :)

Ø     Thanks once again for your patience & participation in this discussion prabhuji.  Kindly ignore my mails if you feel I am too fussy on this subject.

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar