[Advaita-l] [advaitin] Why only jagat is mithya and jeeva is brahman !!??
vranjit49 at gmail.com
Mon Mar 21 05:15:55 CDT 2016
>From what I understand, as per your view : brahman has 2 aspects (3 rather) the un manifest and the manifest (where loka is vyavahara and dreams, imaginations are pratibhasa), the un manifest being the karana swarupa. And all three are enduring perpetually. You further stated that jagat is real when perceived in its karana swarupa. So the question is who perceives it? If you say jiva, then it means jiva is forever bound by upadhis. If the jiva is stripped off its upadhis, then we have to strip off its ahankara too. Then as per the classic statement of Brihadaranyaka up, who sees whom and through what?
Further, the objective of brahma jnana is freedom from the cycle of re births, Naishkarmyasiddhi. So how do you explain bandha and Moksha from this perspective.
Gaudapada, the foremost among Vedantins, clearly denies the view that prapancha is created by ishwara.
From: Bhaskar YR
Sent: Monday 21 March 2016 2:41 PM
To: Ranjit V; A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta; श्रीमल्ललितालालितः via Advaita-l
Subject: RE: [Advaita-l] [advaitin] Why only jagat is mithya and jeeva is brahman !!??
praNAms Sri Ranjit prabhuji
Your view posits 2 different realities which is in contradiction to Shankara Siddhanta.
> For that matter three different realities L-) which are not new to shankara siddhAnta. pAramArthika, vyAvahArika and prAtibhAsika. Here we are talking about the vyAvahArika satyatvaM of jagat. This vyAvahArika jagat is quite uniform and evenly cognized by the karaNa-s (indriya-s) by each and every normal individual. For example, you and me both are seeing the same computer in different forms while exchanging our view points. Again, you and me see the stone as stone, dog as dog, apple as apple only, it is not that you see apple in place of computer and vice versa. If that is the case vyavahAra is not possible and to get this vyavahAra effectively executed we need a common platform which is called vyavahArika jagat. And this jagat should have some common ground of reality and that reality is 'sAmAnya' in this perceived world. And it is this 'sAmAnya' which is the kAraNa which help us to have the 'common' or standardized view of jagat. And this jagat (sarvaM) will have the common platform for its existence and that common platform is nothing but pAramArthika satya in the vyAvahArika jagat. Does it mean this common platform (pAramArthika satya) has the nAma rUpa vikAra in itself?? No, because brahman in its svarUpa nirguNa and nirvishesha. Lord in geeta explains this beautifully in the verse : mayA tatamidaM sarvaM, jagadavyaktamUrtinA, matsthAni sarvabhUtAni parantu na chAhaM teshvavasthitaH ( the whole of this universe is permeated by me as unmanifest divinity and all beings rest on the idea within me. But really speaking I am not present in them.) In otherwords, kArya is in its kAraNa svarUpa nothing but brahman but in brahman kArva vikAra is not there. Again coming back to vyavahAra jagat, shankara elsewhere clarifies that " if only the pAramArthika satya brahman were not in them (vyAvahArika jagat and its objects) they would never be available for transaction.
In Advaita, as per my understanding, the karana karya relationship is proposed only initially. But later discarded. Like I said before karana karya relation does not interfere with niskriyatvam of Brahman.
> yes, I agree with you prabhuji. Brahman is asthUla, anaNu, nishkriya and nirvikAri But the stUla, aNu, bruhat, fat, thin etc. do not have existence apart from That...vishNu sahasranAma says : aNurbruhatkrushH sthUlo etc. is parameshwara only. and shvetAshwatara Upanishad too says this.
Further I agree on most parts of your contention. But the problem here is not that it is an incorrect view but a holistic one. Four men looking at an elephant from 4 different sides describe the elephant in 4 different ways. Everyone is right but only partially. So in that sense everyone is incorrect.
> It may kindly be noted that I am not talking about the individual view point of the same object, I am talking about the samyak drushti of the jnAni who has realized his sat svarUpa. His realization is not like shUnyavAda that it is not existing at all or this is only illusory or momentary like vijnAna or kshaNika vAda. His realization is such that he sees everything as Atman only. And becomes sarvaM. I think I have already given bhAshya vAkya with regard to this.
Your view tries to explain brahman-jagat only in terms of cause-effect.
> tAdAtmya lakshNam or kArya-kAraNa ananyatvaM is not my way of explanation prabhuji brahma vAdinAM vadanti like that :-)
This view can be accepted for all the objects that are perceived only. Hence if you see the jagat as separate from the Atman, it will remain as a separate / permanent entity/ reality.
> I am not saying jagat as separate from Atman, if that is the case jagat is mithyA only noway it is satya. What I am saying is jagat is satya when it is perceived in its kAraNa svarUpa.
However this is impossible like a hare's horn.
> pardon me I am not able to get this. Pls. elaborate.
The jagat is always dependent on jiva.
> the jagat has been created by Ishwara for the jeeva, if the jagat is dependent on jeeva, each and every jeeva would have created his own jagat according to his / her whims and fancies. Is it not??
The one which cannot exist on its own cannot ever become advitiya. Nor does it have any kind of reality.
> Again I agree prabhuji, but what was there in brahman before creation as avyAkruta and what is there now in vyAkruta jagat is nothing but brahman only and this is what has been the declaration of shruti, ItadAtma idam sarvaM, sarvaM khalvidaM brahma etc.
Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
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