[Advaita-l] sushupati anubhava of jnAni and ajnAni

kuntimaddi sadananda kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com
Sat Jan 16 00:26:02 CST 2016

Rajeshji - PraNAms

I though I answered the question - Jnaani does not need or cannot sleep sleep since jnanam involves recognition that I am Brahman, aham braahmaasmi - and scripture says knower of Brahman becomes Brahman; Brahman being Brahman need not and cannot also sleep. His BMI need to sleep since it gets tired. 

anjaani also need not and cannot sleep being Brahmnan; but in his case he thinks he needs to sleep and he thinks he slept also by taadaatmyam or identification with the BMI as I am this BMI. 

Hence the difference between jnaani and ajnaani is only that jnaani knows that he is not BMI - they are in him but he is not BMI. Hence one can even say - He sleeps and yet he does not sleep. It is not a contradiction - just as Krishna say- mastaani sarva bhuutani and in the very next sloka he says - na cha mastaani bhuutani. Both are correct - the reference state for each statement is only different. Hence jnaani sleep and yet jnaani does not sleep - That is his Vibhuti. - pasyan me yogamaiswaram!

Hope this helps.

Hari Om!

If you read my original response this was stated so. 

On Fri, 1/15/16, Rajesh Benjwal via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] sushupati anubhava of jnAni and ajnAni
 To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
 Date: Friday, January 15, 2016, 11:11 PM
 Lets take few points from
 various replies.
 kuntimaddi sadananda
 *>>>>*First answer is - a jnaani
 does not sleep since he has realized his
 true nature - brahma vit brahmaiva bhavati - is
 the scriptural statement.
 Hence being
 Brahman he cannot or need not sleep!*>>>*
 I do not see
 any reason why jnAni need not to sleep as this is
 body which needs to sleep. What is
 the difference between jnAnai and ajnAni
 body? Why one needs to sleep and other not?
 >>>> Venkatraghavan Sji said
 1) ShAstra pramANa is pretty categorical that
 there is no return for a
 brahma jnAni. The
 famously laconic Brahma SUtra, goes to the extent of
 repeating अनावृत्तिः
 शब्दात्,  ("there is no return, says
 the Shruti"). There are various
 श्रुति प्रमाण for this:
 (Ch 8.6.6, "Going up by that way, one attains
 एतेन प्रतिपद्यमाना
 इमं मानवमावर्तं
 नावर्तन्ते (Ch 4.15.5,
 "Those who proceed on that path do not
 return to the life of man"
 तेषां न पुनरावृत्तिः (Br
 6.2.15, "There is no return for them")
 2) Secondly, by
 युक्ति प्रमाण, the body's
 प्रारब्ध would have to be very
 good if brahma jnAna is attained in the first
 place. If not, how else would
 jnAni's BMI have attained ब्रह्म
 ज्ञानं and become a ब्रह्म
 निष्ठ in
 that janma? That being
 the case, how can his प्रारब्ध have a lapse,
 Correct, but there is one
 exception also, which is a rare one, that if some
 take birth with such prArabdha which cannot be
 exhausted in one janma then
 that jnAni,
 of-course talking about the sukshma sarira of jnAni, will
 get a sthula sarira. So exceptions are
 >>>If concerns still remain that one
 is not a brahma nishTHA and hence may
 Krishna in Chapter 6 of the Gita says that if such a lapse
 that person will be born in an
 environment conducive for ज्ञान योग in
 next birth and will carry on from where
 he left off in the previous
 Perfect. :-)
 >>>>>> Aurobind Padiyathji
 A wave when it merges back to ocean it
 fears not that it will become a wave
 Because it has lost the individuality of the wave. But the
 keep coming and merges back in the
 same fashion again and again. But those
 waves have the firm knowledge that is not a
 simple wave but the mighty
 Similarly when That knowledge arises there is
 no more fear of what is not
 real. To such a
 person there is nothing other than That. For him, the one
 who had gained that knowledge, everything is
 only That where even names and
 forms are
 mere appearances of That, which is nothing but his own
 To such a person which is everything
 and sees only his own nature where can
 look and what can he see other than his own nature.
 The only example the Veda uses to explain that
 state is "like" the deep
 but not the deep sleep which we remember after waking.
 Correct Sir, but this jnAnam take place in
 antahkAraNam which can develop
 again the
 association with the body mind complex somehow, OR it can
 this is the question to ponder upon.
 H S Chandramouliji said
 Even if it comes
 back, the problem is only temporary. The problem pertains
 only to the current body. It has been clearly
 stated in the Shrutis that
 once Jnana is
 attained, there is no further transmigration for the Jiva
 whatever happens in the intervening period till
 the current body falls off.
 Sir, it means you accept that there is
 possibility that a jnAni antahkaraNa
 develop again thought "I am Body mind sense
 complex." It looks like a
 possibility that after brain injury it can happen.
 Now the question is, 
 promised vidheamukti should be there. But that is
 because a jnAni does not claim  AgAmi karma
 but if he develops again the
  deha abhimAnam
 then why will he not get the phalam of AgAmi karma?
 Praveen R. Bhatji said
 There is only
 vikShepa, not AvaraNa. So the world is seen, but not as
 different from brahman, since the true nature
 has been revealed once and
 for all.
 So there is a possibility of vikshepa without
 avaraNa. Any pramanam,
 dristAntam  for
 that, I would like to know any reference, it would be
 Basically you are
 saying if we know there is sand then even if we are
 seeing water there then that is only vikshepam
 and no avaraNa is there,
 right? looks
 perfect and it also leads to conclusion that for vikshepa
 work avaraNa is not necessary.
 On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 9:21
 PM, kuntimaddi sadananda <
 kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>
 > PraNAms
 > Sri Vidyaranya
 discusses this in the 7th Chapter of Pancadashi that we
 > currently doing for Advaita
 Academy. He discusses this using the example of
 > the 10th man. The 10th man out of sorrow
 that the 10th man is lost keeps
 > hitting
 his head and hurts himself - later he discovers that the he
 is the
 > missing 10th man when the
 teacher says the tat tvam asi - you are what you
 > are seeking all the time. Having
 discovered that he is the tenth man does
 > not remove his head injuries. Hence goes
 through the medical treatment but
 > that
 does not destroy his knowledge that He is the one whom he
 has been
 > seeking all the time. This is
 true for the head injuries any injuries
 before after the jnaanam. Hence Krishnas statement -
 duHkeshu anudvigna
 > manaaH, sukheshu
 vigata jwaraH...
 Another aspect Vidyaranya discusses that even when one knows
 that it is
 > magic show and what is
 happening on the stage is not really real, that
 > knowledge does not obstruct one enjoying
 the show. In fact one enjoys more
 > since
 it is not real and appears to be so real. The whole world
 becomes a
 > vibhuti for the self-realized
 person. That of course includes not only the
 > waking state, dream state and even the
 deep - sleep state experiences.
 > Hari Om!
 > Sadananda
 > On Fri, 1/15/16, H S Chandramouli via
 Advaita-l <
 > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
 >  Sri Rajesh Ji,
 >  Reg your query 
 << If
 >  it is same then is it
 possible that after some
 >  brain-injury
 his wrong
 >  conclusion, I am body,
 based on avidhyA could
 >  come
 Even if
 >  it comes back, the problem is
 only temporary. The problem
 >  only to the current body. It
 >  been clearly stated in the
 Shrutis that
 >  once
 >  Jnana is attained, there is no further
 transmigration for
 >  the Jiva
 >  whatever happens in the intervening
 >  period till the current body falls
 >  Regards
 *Rajesh Benjwal*
  e:rbenjwal at gmail.com
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