[Advaita-l] avidya is Agantuka

H S Chandramouli hschandramouli at gmail.com
Thu Jan 14 07:04:20 CST 2016

Sri Venkatrghavan Ji,

 Sri Subrahmanian Ji has clarified that विक्षेप is what is meant in his
post. I will continue with the justification for my stand ( quote from a
previous post )  <<  This is the अभिव्यक्त अविद्या which is अनर्थहेतु because
this ignorance of one's own true nature is the fundamental cause of all
samsara >>.

 In the illustration of the rope-serpent, which is the अनर्थहेतु ??
Rope-serpent or the ignorance of rope ?? Rope-serpent  is the अनर्थ and
ignorance of the rope is the अनर्थहेतु. Why ?? Because the अनर्थ of
rope-serpent can be removed only by the removal of its cause ( अनर्थहेतु )
which is ignorance of the rope. Just because rope-serpent is manifest and
causes fear etc directly, it is not termed अनर्थहेतु. Same is the case with
what is under discussion. 'tattva apratibodha' (तत्वअप्रतिबोध ignorance of
the True Nature of the Self, same as आवरण an aspect of अविद्या)   being the
cause for the anyathā grahaṇa (अन्यथाग्रहण or  विक्षेप another aspect of
अविद्या)  of samsara is the अनर्थहेतु , although samsara is directly

Now we consider the manifestation aspect of आवरण. Clearly the आवरण aspect
is not discernible , even though present , at the time of विक्षेप.
Ignorance of the rope is not known ( manifest )  at the time of perception
of the rope-snake even though it is present and is the cause for the
perception of the rope-snake. Similar is the case with the विक्षेप of
samsara also. आवरण aspect of अविद्या also is present during विक्षेप but not
discerned. In the case of the rope-snake, rope is perceived later and the
cause for the appearance of the rope-snake is determined to be the
ignorance of the rope. What about samsara. Atman is not readily available
for perception like the rope. So how to conclude samsara is विक्षेप and not
real. More so because such a conclusion flies in the face of other pramanas
to the contrary. In the absence of any reasonable pramana, such a
conclusion becomes at best a postulate, just like any other innumerable
postulates about Creation/God/Jiva. Backing of the Shruti is no doubt
available, but it is a feature of Advaita Sidhanta that the conclusions
arrived at in accordance with the Shruti are such that they cannot be
contradicted by logic or anubhava. सुषुप्ति anubhava is the ONLY pramana
for bringingout the आवरण aspect of the Atman while the other two states (
स्वप्न and जाग्रत्) bringout the विक्षेप aspect. That is why so much
prominence is given to सुषुप्ति in BU Bhashya, a point highlighted by Sri
Sadananda Ji also in his recent post in this thread. At this stage I just
copy from my earlier post for the sake of completeness.

<<  It is in this state of सुषुप्ति that the Jiva is directly in
association solely with the Atman, without any distraction in the form of
diversity of Creation ( विक्षेप ) , but is still unable to realize its
identity with the Atman, the cause being आवरण ( ignorance of one's own true
nature ) caused by अविद्या. This is the अभिव्यक्त अविद्या which is अनर्थहेतु
 because this ignorance of one's own true nature is the fundamental cause
of all samsara. This is predominantly noticeable only during सुषुप्ति. In
the other two states it is camouflaged by the distraction caused by the
diversity of Creation ( विक्षेप caused by the same अविद्या ). This I
believe is how the statement of Sri Anandagiri Acharya has to be understood.>>.


On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 4:41 PM, V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>

> On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 3:38 PM, H S Chandramouli <
> hschandramouli at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Sri Venkatraghavan Ji,
>> I am quoting below from the latest post by Sri Subrahmanian Ji
>> << In the above bhaṣyam we can see that the āvaraṇa has been said to be
>> of the nature of 'tattva apratibodha', that is, not-knowing of the
>> Truth, which is the seed. For what? For the anyathā grahaṇa, which is
>> the effect, the
>> sprout of the seed: vikṣepa. This is present in the two states jāgrat and
>> svapna. The 'seed' is present in all states as the fundamental ignorance.
>> This is what is meant by 'agantuka' in the current discussion, while the
>> 'seed' is admitted to be anādi and present in all states, through all
>> janmas. till one becomes enlightened, which is what the above verse
>> finally says .>>.
>> I am not clear what is referred to by the statement << This is what is
>> meant by 'agantuka' in the current discussion >>. Which is meant by
>> agantuka – seed ('tattva apratibodha' ) or vikshepa ??  I am not sure. If
>> seed is meant along with its effect of आवरण ('tattva apratibodha' ) ,
>> that is what I have been saying also all along. Sri Subrahmanian Ji may
>> please clarify.
> It is the vikṣepa that is meant here as 'āgantuka' since that is what is
> manifest and is anarthahetu directly.
> regards
> vs

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