[Advaita-l] [advaitin] 'Iśwara is Māyāvin'

kuntimaddi sadananda kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com
Thu Feb 11 06:07:38 CST 2016

Chandramouliji - PraNAms.

You are right - Kuutasta which is same is Brahma chaitanya and is the absolute. 

Jeeva is discussed as Upahita chatanya where upaadhi starts with antaHkaraNa- Pravesham is enlivening the inert BMI by formation of chidaabhaasa. The aabaasa arguments (responding to avachcheda vaadin as purvapaksha) that he discusses, which  he extends to IshaH - or Iswara - which he also discussed in the earlier chapter as reflection in the suddha maayaa - I think it was done in 7th chapter or so. In the 6th chapter too, there was discussion of four types of chaitanya using ghataakaasha, jalaakaasha, meghaakaasha and mahaakaasha. In essence he consistently present Iswara as pratibimba in the samashTi chaitanya. I have listened Swami Paramarthanandaji talks on those slokes and what I presented is its essence, as I understand.

Of course, the absolute truth is Brahman chaitanya which is taken as kuutastha or saakshi  chaitanya in relation to that which enlivens the local BMI. 

I think the final understanding is true - Brahman is beyond jeeva-jagat-Iswara - which are all products of vyaavahaarika. Which also implies Iswara has to coming from maayaa. The question is whether maayaa comes first or Iswara comes first - either way interdependence becomes a fact.  Yes I am aware of Swe. Up. mantra - maayaantu prakRitim vidyaat.. etc and mayaa dhyaksheNa prakRitiH suuyate. And Vevekachudamani says - maayaa as parameswara shakti - shakti cannot exit without a locus. ... 

Hence the original question posed is how to reconcile all these statements. - anyonya aasraya also happens with Jeeva too. which Bhagavan Ramauja criticizes extensively in his Shree Bhaashya as seven untenable against avidya of Jeeva in Advaita Vedanta.

With this I will stop.

Hari Om!

On Thu, 2/11/16, H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] [advaitin] 'Iśwara is Māyāvin'
 To: "kuntimaddi sadananda" <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>, "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
 Date: Thursday, February 11, 2016, 6:13 AM
 Sri Sadananda Ji,  
 I just referred to Panchadasi Chapter 8 verses
 60 to 68
 which deal with the subject we are concerned with at
 present. My understanding
 of these  verses in respect of Iswara and
 Maayaa is as follows.
  The issue is
 Kutastha as the SOLE Reality. Not even Iswara. Considering
  Iswara as Real is a deception created by
 Maayaa. I do not think the verses should be understood as
 presenting  Iswara as a product of Maayaa. Presenting
 Iswara as real is the creation of  Maayaa. Only Kutastha is
 the SOLE Reality.
 As you are undoubdtedly aware there are any
 number of
 Shruti Vakyas which in the context of Creation present
 Iswara as the Creator wielding
 the power of Maayaa मायिनन्तु महेश्वरः. Understood in the
 abovementioned  manner there is
 consistency between these verses of Panchadasi and well
 known Shruti
 On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at
 3:38 PM, kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>
 Chandramouliji - PraNAms
 I have referenced Panchadashi 8th Chapter -sloka 60 - where
 Vidyaranya states his statement is based on shruti -from the
 notes I have he refers to NRisimha Uttara Tapaneeya
 Upanishad - sloka 9. I have not seen the Upanishad.
 To answer your question - yes maaya is inert - the topic of
 the chapter is Kuutastha chaitanyam of Saakshi chaitanyam
 and how to differentiate it from chidaabaasa. He also
 providing arguments supporting the superiority for abhaasa
 vaada against avachcheda vaada in this chapter. Yes in the
 presence of KuuTasta chaitanya by reflection the vyaShTi
 buddhi becomes conscious entity forming jeeva and samashTi
 becomes Iswara again by reflection. The formation of
 reflection is figuratively called pravasham and also
 creation of Jiiva-hood and Iswara-hood. In the samaShTi, all
 the rajo and samo gunas fall out leaving pure satva guna of
 maaya for reflection - Since satva guna stands for knowledge
 - Iswara becomes sarvajnaH. These aspects were also
 discussed in the 7th chapter - tRipti deepa prakaraNa -
 where Vidhyaranaya provides close to 300 verses commenting
 on Bri. Up 4-4-12 mantra - that says one has to inquire into
 the aatma or the self - aatmaichet vihaneeyaat aham asmeeti
 I was just posing the question since maaya and creation are
 beginning less cycle, the anyonya aashraya is accounted by
 anirvacaneeya khyaati.
 Hope this helps.
 Hari Om!
 On Thu, 2/11/16, H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
  Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] [advaitin] 'Iśwara is
  To: "kuntimaddi sadananda" <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>,
 "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
  Date: Thursday, February 11, 2016, 4:28 AM
  Sri Sadananda Ji, 
  Reg  << Based on
  authority of Shruti it is clearly established that both
  jeeva and Iswara are
  products of maayaa
  माया  is  जडम् (inert). It cannot
 produce anything by itself.
  So who is the Producer of Iswara??  Can
  you please cite some of the Shruti Vakyams on which
  conclusion is based.
  As per my understanding,
  with the manifestation of  माया Chaitanyam
  itself with माया as its उपाधि is
 considered as Iswara . There is no
  “product” of माया called
  On Wed, Feb 10, 2016 at
  3:58 PM, kuntimaddi sadananda via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
  Subbuji – PraNAms
  In the 8th Chapter of Panchadashi – kuuTastha deepa
  prakaraNa – that we just completed for Advaita
  (yu-tube talks will soon become available) Shree
  says – sloka 60 – that Iswara like jiiva is
  (are products of maaya). Maayaavin and maayikou leads
  anyonya aashraya dosha- error of  interdependence.
  maayaabhaasena jeeveshou karoteeti shrutatvataH|
  maayikaaveva jeeveshou svachchou tou kaarakumbhavat||
  Based on the authority of Shruti it is clearly
  that both jeeva and Iswara are products of maayaa – one
  reflection in impure maayaa and the other the reflection
  pure satva guna pradhaana maayaa.
  Hari Om!
  On Wed, 2/10/16, V Subrahmanian v.subrahmanian at gmail.com
  [advaitin] <advaitin at yahoogroups.com>
   Subject: [advaitin] 'Iśwara is Māyāvin'
   To: science-religion-philosophy at googlegroups.com,
  "Advaitin" <advaitin at yahoogroups.com>,
  "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
   Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2016, 3:15 AM
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