[Advaita-l] Fwd: "time" as defined in Vedanta pariBAsha.

sreenivasa murthy narayana145 at yahoo.co.in
Sun Dec 25 22:28:43 CST 2016

Dear Sri Venkataraghavan,
 You write : "As you are aware, there are several views of kAla within advaita darshana".The views are opinions of the writers /teachers and it is pure spectulation. Then What is the final truth about kAla? It is the TRUTH / FACT that matters to a tattvajijnAsu. 

With respectful namaskarams,Sreenivasa Murthy

      From: Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
 To: H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com> 
Cc: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
 Sent: Monday, 26 December 2016 1:17 AM
 Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Fwd: "time" as defined in Vedanta pariBAsha.
Namaste Sri Chandramouliji ,

As you are aware, there are several views of kAla within advaita darshana,
and one of the views is kAla as avidyA's kArya. Sri DS Subbaramaiya in his
work, Sri Dakshinamurtistotram volume 1, outlines the various views, both
in advaita and other schools (Pages 324 to 340).

Here is a summary:
1) kAla as an effect of avidyA - derived from the bhAshya sentence - एतेन
दिक्कालमन: परमण्वादीनाम् कार्यत्वम् व्याख्यातम्  (BS 2.3.7)
2) kAla as avidyA - derived from the vAchArambhaNa shruti that the kArya is
no different from the kAraNa. MadhusUdana sarasvati svAminah takes this
view in siddhAnta bindu too  - कालस्तु अविद्यैव। तस्या एव सर्वाधारत्वादिति।
3) kAla as the relation between avidyA and Brahman - the one that Sri
Subbu-ji referred to earlier.
4) kAla as the kriyAshakti of Ishvara
5) kAla as that taTastha lakshaNa of Brahman

Its worth reading this portion of the book and the various quotes given by
the author in this regard.

Coming to your question of how the sUta samhita verse quoted should be
interpreted. I believe in this case, the sUta samhita takes the view that
kAla is indeed a relation between Brahman and avidyA. The entire 1.8
chapter of the SS is worth studying for those interested in this topic.

1) Firstly, Ananthakrishna Sastrigal in his tamil translation of the Suta
Samhita translates this phrase as the relationship between Atma and mAya.

2) Secondly SvAmi vidyAraNya in his commentary to the sUta samhita, the
tAtparyadIpika, says in relation to another sloka, 1.8.22: द्विविधो हि काल:
परम: अपरमश्चेति । शिवमायासम्बन्धरूप: परम इति ।

3) The sUta samhita itself (1.8.24 to be precise) distinguishes kAla, mAya
and its products when it says:

कालो माया च तत्कार्यम् शिवेनावृतम् ।
शिव: कालानवच्छिन्न: कालतत्त्वम् यथा तथा ॥

Time, mAya and its products are enveloped by Shiva (Atma). Just as
everything is limited by time, except time itself, Shiva (Atma) is also not
limited by time.  So here if the sUta samhita was taking the view that kAla
is a product of mAya, there would be no need to list kAla, mAya and its
products separately.

However, here is a curiosity - SvAmi vidyAraNya makes a statement in the
bhAshya for 1.8.24, which is worth considering. He says: मायाकार्यम् च माया
च तत्सम्बन्धरूप: कालश्च त्रितयमपि शिवतत्त्वज्ञानेन विलीयत एव |

I could be mistaken, but here Swami VidyAraNya apparently seems to say that
kAla is the sambandha between mAyakAryam and mAya, which is in apparent
contradiction to what he said just two slokas previously शिवमायासम्बन्धरूप:
परम इति. What does the तत् in तत्सम्बन्धरूप: काल: refer to? The most
proximate nouns to which the sambandha can be attributed are mAyAkAryam and
mAya, but that results in a contradiction with what he said in 1.8.22. It
could be that here in 1.8.24 he is referring to apara kAla, whereas in
1.8.22 he was referring to para kAla.

If anyone has any thoughts on why this is the case, I would be interested
in knowing.


On Sun, Dec 25, 2016 at 3:55 PM, H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com>

> Namaste Sri Venkatraghavan Ji,
> Reg  << The sUta samhita makes a reference to kAla as the sambandha
> (relation)
> between mAya and Atma (2-2-10) : कालो मायात्मसम्बन्धात् सर्वसाधारणात्मक:
> >>,
> Would it be appropriate to understand from this quote kAla as the product
> of mAya on its association (सम्बन्धात्) with Atman, mAya being inert and
> upAdAna kArana ?
> Regards


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