[Advaita-l] mithyA and abhAva chatuShTaya - Vaadiraaja's Nyayaratnavali Slokas 43-46

Durga Janaswamy janaswamy2001 at hotmail.com
Mon Sep 7 19:30:40 CDT 2015

Hari Om,

Few doubts:
1. For an advaitin, Veda is apauruSeya (अपौरुषेय).
Is Veda apauruSeya or the pauruSeya for  Dwaitins  and Visistadvaitins?
If Veda is pauruSeya, then they have problems of
a. mutual dependency and 
b. aswatantra pramana of vedas.
How are these answered? 

2. Does Veda has a 'dependent and borrowed existence' for an advaitin?  Or is Veda anAdi  for an advaitin?

thanks and regards
-- durga prasad

> Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2015 10:42:09 +0530 
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] mithyA and abhAva chatuShTaya - Vaadiraaja's  
> Nyayaratnavali Slokas 43-46 
> From: v.subrahmanian at gmail.com 
> To: janaswamy2001 at hotmail.com; advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org 
> Dear Sri Durgaprasad ji, 
> The point being made in these posts is: Dvaita admits ONLY Viṣṇu  
> (Brahman) to have Swatantra Sattā/satya. Everything else derive their  
> reality/existence from Brahman and therefore are categorized as  
> 'paratantra sattā/satya.'   Naturally, they do not admit the Veda to  
> have Swatantra sattā nor can they say that the Veda enjoys the same  
> level of sattā as Brahman in which  case there will be two entities  
> having Swatantra satya: Brahman and Veda which position is not correct  
> even according to them.  Thus, in conclusion, for them too, like  
> advaitins, the Veda has only a second level, a dependent, borrowed  
> existence and not the first class existence. 
> Advaitins openly hold that the Veda belongs to the Vyāvahārika satya. 
> regards 
> vs 
> On Mon, Sep 7, 2015 at 5:24 AM, Durga Janaswamy via Advaita-l  
> <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org<mailto:advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>>  
> wrote: 
> Hari Om, 
> Pranams. 
> For the last few days, I am not getting emails from Advaita-l mailing list. 
> In the archives, I saw the following in one of the emails on the subject: 
> "Good point, but here the question is not whether VedAs are svatantram  
> or paratantram, but whether they have svatantra sattA or paratantra  
> sattA? 
> If something depends on something else for its existence, it has no  
> independent existence of its own. This is the advaita position: that  
> VedAs themselves have no svatantra sattA- they ultimately have to  
> depend on Brahman for their existence." 
> Vedas being apauruSeya (अपौरुषेय), the relation between Brahman and  
> Vedas need to be understood carefully. It is discussed  in  Brahma  
> Sutra: 1.1.3 shAstrayonitvAt (शास्त्रयोनित्वात्) under two heads: 
> 1. (Brahman is omniscient)  because of (Its) being the source of the  
> scriptures. 
> 2. (Brahman is not known from any other source), since the scriptures  
> are the valid means of Its knowledge. 
> "The Vedas are given out by the Supreme Being at the beginning of each  
> cycle of creation without effort as in breathing out. But even He does  
> not have liberty in creating the Vedas. He creates them exactly in the  
> same way as they were in the previous kalpa. That in turn is in the  
> same form as in the kalpa previous to it. Thus the same Vedas are given  
> out again and again in each kalpa. Creation is beginningless and so  
> there is no such thing as the first creation of the Vedas. Though the  
> Supreme Being gives out the Vedas in every kalpa, he has no liberty in  
> creating them. It is because of this lack of absolute freedom in  
> creating that the Vedas are called ‘apaurusheya’." 
> Please see the following link (Brahmasutra 1.1.3 -- शास्त्रयोनित्वात् 
> Translation of the lectures of Dr. Mani Dravid Sastri) 
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bw-rceu2TxMUakQ3Q09jeU5ORjg 
> thank you and regards 
> -- durga prasad 
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