[Advaita-l] Brahman and Avidya - mutually exclusive?

Aurobind Padiyath aurobind.padiyath at gmail.com
Tue Jun 23 09:03:03 CDT 2015

Sri Venkatraghavanji,

Your two questions are:

So two questions here:
1) Are you saying that mAyA or mUlAvidya is non existent in deep sleep?
mAyA is only to him who in waking feels or experiences the effects of it.
In his deep sleep he doesn't have any experience (visheSha vigjnanam) since
his all types of sharIrA is in laya and has merged into the Turiya. When
that Turiya vibrates (spandanam) again, the cycle repeats. This laya is in
fact becoming one with IT as there is no two in reality. But what happens
or seems to happen, even though in reality it is not happening, is the all
pervading when reflects through the same sharIrA the individuality appears
to come back to life in the waking as Jnani or AJnani or the Jagat through
their respective Upadhis. These explanations of theory of mAyA etc are only
to make one inward and not in reality. In reality only That is there. Rest
are for the inquisitive mind to calm down and realise that "Brahmaivedam
sarvam" or "Atma vyatirekena nasti kinchit".

2) Are you saying that the lack of experience of sharIrA is equal to the
lack of existence of the sharIrA

>From the above you can understand that the laya is a temporary absence like
a wave when not seen does not mean it is absent in the ocean.

Aurobind Padiyath
On 23 Jun 2015 19:23, "Venkatraghavan S" <agnimile at gmail.com> wrote:

> FYI - resending this email after deleting history (got a message from the
> forum admin saying that the size of the message is too large).
> Sri Aurobind,
> Ok.
> AvidyA can be broadly talked about as:
> 1) Absence of knowledge / mistaken knowledge of the true nature of self -
> Atma avidyA: This avidyA is what is termed mUlAvidyA, kAraNa sharIrA or
> mAyA. You have admitted that the terms are synonymous in a previous post.
> So presumably, you are willing to accept that mAyA and Brahman can co-exist
> but that brahman and avidyA cannot?
> 2) Absence of knowledge / or mistaken knowledge of objects - AnAtma
> avidyA: If as you say  that "Tamah prakashyoh viruda swabhava"-vat,
> avidyA of objects and brahman cannot exist simultaneously, a person, upon
> the rise of brahma gyAna (ie the destruction of all avidyA), should
> automatically have knowledge of all objects. This is not the case - a
> brahma gyAni will not automatically become a sarvagyA and have vishaya
> gyAnam, he will *only* have atma svarUpa gyAnam. Suppose a person doesn't
> have knowledge of physics. After brahma gyAna utpatti for such a person,
> he will not say, "yes now I completely understand physics". A brahma gyAni
> will simply know that physics has no fundamental reality.
> These are only two forms of presentation of avidyA - in reality there is
> no difference between the two, they are simply one avidyA.
> This topic arose because of this statement you made in your earlier posts:
> >>In the deep sleep since This experince of even the sareera is absent,
> even the ignorance is absent hence my statement that in deep sleep there is
> no Avidya.
> The experience of sharIrA being absent in deep sleep is an argument for
> knowledge to be absent, not for ignorance to be absent. In your statement
> above, it is unclear to me how you move from the phrase "experience of even
> the sareera is absent" to the conclusion "ignorance is absent". The natural
> conclusion from the first phrase "experience of even the sareera is absent"
> is that knowledge of sharIrA is absent, or ignorance of sharIrA is present.
> So two questions here:
> 1) Are you saying that mAyA or mUlAvidya is non existent in deep sleep?
> 2) Are you saying that the lack of experience of sharIrA is equal to the
> lack of existence of the sharIrA?
> I ask these questions because mUlAvidyA or kAraNa sharIra, is recognized
> as one of the sharIra trayam comprising sthUla, sUkshma and kAraNa sharIrA.
> It cannot be argued that mAyA disappears for a deep sleeper. mAyA or
> mUlAvidyA is present for a deep sleeper, whether a gyAni or otherwise.
> However, when the gyAni wakes up, he knows that he is not the kAraNa
> sharIrA, and that it does not in fact exist.
> Secondly, the lack of experience of something is not proof of lack of its
> existence. The lack of experience of sharIrA is not proof of lack of the
> existence of sharIrA.
> However, brahma gyAna, which is knowledge that "experience" has no
> "fundamental existence", which can only occur and be subsequently invoked
> in the waking state, can lead one to conclude that there is no avidyA -
> whether as mAyA, or of any other kind.
> Regards,
> Venkatraghavan
> On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 12:51 PM, Aurobind Padiyath <
> aurobind.padiyath at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Sri Venkatraghavanji,
>> Hari Om!!!
>> Avidya as a product of Maya has all the three aspects of negative
>> knowledge, Absence of any knowledge at all and mixed-up knowledge where you
>> mistake one for another. I am limited and has only one life etc is the
>> first group, The absence of a higher Self called Atma or Brahman etc falls
>> in the second and I am the body and this body has rebirth etc are the third
>> group. Here also some over lap between them happens so that we cannot
>> strictly group them. But all are effects of Maya.
>> Hari Om!!!
>> Aurobind Padiyath

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