[Advaita-l] Difficulty with Akhandakara Vrtti
ravikiranm108 at gmail.com
Thu Jun 18 04:44:14 CDT 2015
On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 1:11 PM, श्रीमल्ललितालालितः <
lalitaalaalitah at lalitaalaalitah.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 12:11 PM, Ravi Kiran via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>> Thanks for the detailed response from *श्रीमल्ललितालालितः*
>> Just sharing my understanding from this thread:
>> 1. akhaNDAkAravRttiH results in brahmavidyA or
>> jivAtma paramAtma ekatva jnAna (knowledge of the mahAvAkya)
> No. because, akhaNDAkArvRttiH is brahmavidyA.
> It's cause is mahAvvAkya, is correct.
Thanks for the affirmation.
> I don't know what do you mean by 'knowledge of mahAvAkya'. It should be
> 'knowledge of mahAvAkyArtha'.
Thanks for the correction.
> 2. As per the below defintion of charama jnAna, other vRttis based on
>> ( though it is seen as bAdhita vRtti or sublation, in light of the charama
>> vRtti )
>> doesn't arise. There is just the unbroken homogeneous eka charama vRtti
> No. I didn't say or imply that.
> As vRtti, even charama-vRtti, is dRshya; so I meant cessation of this
> vRtti forever too
> by saying that no dRshya stays.
Ok, this clears my doubt on charana jnAna. Thanks for the clarification.
>> So, one would understand it as synonym to jnAna samAdhi, having no
>> knowledge or awareness of the nAma rUpa prapaNcha.
> No. You can't compare it to samAdhi, because samAdhi
> is a mental modification of the form of cessation of all other mental
> modifications and it doesn't affect prapa~ncha. While, the charama-vRtti
> destroys every dRshya by destroying avidyA.
> I fear that you are superimposing your present understanding on what I
> presented. You need to be more open/vacant to understand new things, should
> be remembered.
In light of the above clarification, understood the purport and
implications of your response in the earlier email. Thanks Again!
>> Hari Om!
>> On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 10:55 AM, श्रीमल्ललितालालितः via Advaita-l <
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>> > I'll not like to say anything about your use of those words of
>> > different/one type of knowlede.
>> > Let me clear my stand, although I have said it once on some forum
>> > The samyagdarshanam (correct knowledge?) is that which liberates, and
>> > is termed as akhaNDAkAravRttiH.
>> > brahman is GYAna-svarUpa, but it is not opposed to aGYAna. We can see
>> > it is which illuminates aGYAna, etc. too. And, hence it is said that
>> > अज्ञाततया ज्ञाततया च सर्व्वं साक्षिभास्यम् ।
>> > So, the samyag-gyAna is vRttyupahita-chaitanyam. vRttiH again should be
>> > brahmAkArA, otherwise it can't dispel aGYAnam of brahman. This is seen
>> > case of ghaTa-GYAnam and ghaTAgyAnam.
>> > The akAraH of vRttiH is defined as the yogyatA(capacity/ability?) of
>> > vRttiH, either paroxa or aparoxa, to dispel the aGYAna(which obstruct
>> > vyavahAra of pot, etc. as existing, shining, etc.);
>> > or, it is the तत्सन्निकृष्टकरणजन्यत्वं (don't know enough English to
>> > translate, sorry!) present in vRttiH.
>> > So, the brahmAkAratvam of vRtti means that the ability of vRtti to
>> > ignorance of brahman which(ignorance) blocks(!?) vyavahAra(abhiGYA,
>> > abhilapana, etc.) as 'exiting', 'shining/illuminating'.
>> > Now, the akhaNDAkAratva or niShprakAratva of vRttiH.
>> > Just take it as if a vRttiH dispels ignorance of a pot, etc. but doesn't
>> > objectify it's adjectives, it is niShprakArikA.
>> > prakAra means adjectives. The vRtti which illuminates base, it's
>> > and their relation; is saprakArikA.
>> > advaitin-s, like madhusUdana-sarasvatI, etc. maintain that the
>> > brahmAkAra-vRttiH should be niShprakArikA/akhaNDAkArA, if it has to be
>> > liberating knowledge. Because, shrutiH itself says : tameva
>> > viditvAtimRtyumeti. Here 'eva' implies that it should not illuminate pot
>> > etc. /or parts / or qualities with brahman.
>> > Now, charamatvam of GYAnam/vRtti.
>> > If you accept that GYAna doesn't cause videhakaivalyam at once and
>> > way for prArabdha, i.e. if you accept jIvanmukti; then the knowledge of
>> > brahman present in jIvanmukta is not charama. charama means final, after
>> > which there is no appearance if duality, not even as mithyA or one with
>> > you.
>> > You may not find this term in bhAShyam. It may have surfaced after
>> > objections from others/or vedAntins themselves.
>> > It is not essential that bhAShyam could always be supported by repeating
>> > terms used by bhAShyakAra only.
>> > B: how 'akhanda' can have the 'AkAra' that too with 'vrutti' rUpa?? Or
>> > it symbolically used to denote the sama darshana of the samyak jnAni??
>> > L: akhaNDa is not brahman here as you appear to imply. akhaNDAkAra of
>> > vRtti means that it doesn't illuminate any adjective or relation. It
>> > dispels ignorance of / illuminates one thing, either brahman or pot
>> > revealing it's qualties and relations.
>> > Note that akhaNDAkAravRtti or niShprakAravRtti or nirvikalpakavRtti are
>> > synonyms in our system.
>> > Also, note that such vRtti is not only brahmAkArA. When one replies to
>> > question 'which is moon' as 'prakRShTaprakAshaH chandraH', the sentence
>> > generates akhaNDAkAravRtti; because the question was not about quality.
>> > Any person who wants to know more, is suggested to study books
>> > I'll add that I don't expect that any of you should accept such
>> > It is actually difficult to accept it, just because your studies are
>> > limited to bhAShyam/translations, etc. These terms can't be related to
>> > bhAShyam directly, I accept. Those who stand on translations, will find
>> > more difficult because terms are from Sanskrit language, related to
>> > system of thought/argument, and because I don't know how to explain
>> them in
>> > English with examples.
>> > *श्रीमल्ललितालालितः*www.lalitaalaalitah.com
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