[Advaita-l] ***UNCHECKED*** Only Self knowledge gives liberation...

Subu S mail_to_subu at yahoo.com
Fri Jul 3 06:14:18 CDT 2015

Amazing reply Sujal Ji
May the inner guru guide us to read what needs to be read and omit what isn't essential 
May the inner guru guide us to ask the necessary questions and stay silent at other times 



mail_to_subu at yahoo.com
      From: Sujal Upadhyay via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
 To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> 
 Sent: Tuesday, 30 June 2015, 11:07
 Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] ***UNCHECKED*** Only Self knowledge gives liberation...

Reply is divided into 2 parts.

Part - I - Necessity of reading shastras and application of Sri Ramana
Maharshi's philosophy.
Part - II - direct reply to vivek's question


*Part - I - Necessity of reading shastras and application of Sri Ramana
Maharshi's philosophy. *

Regarding not meditating, or no need to meditate or who is the one who
meditates or no need of shastras, etc are not applicable to the newbies.

All these things are given in Ashtavakra Gita, but Gita itself warns that
if you take it rightly, you will enter into nirvikalp samadhi, if not you
will drop everything that you do and this will cause downfall.

The thing is extrovert mind cannot meditate or is not capable of even doing
japa. vivek-yukta vairagya is necessary for spiritual development. The 4
qualities - vivek, vairagya, satsampatti, mumukshutva are necessary. You
can expect them to be fully developed, else you are a GYAnI, as strong
faith in brahman is only possible when you abide in it. Hence another word
for GYAnI is brahmaniShTha. nishTHA means shraddhA. Strong faith in Brahman
is called as brahmaniShThA. Hence GYAnI is brahmaniShTha.

Advaita sits on karma kANDa, which givs us inner purity. Now since vedic
karma kANDa and agnihotra re not carried out, chitta shuddhi has to be done
by other ways like chanting rAma nAma, etc.

shastra-s gives one direction-road map, clarity and gives you words that
you can ponder upon. In Ramana Maharshi's words, sajAtiya vritti pravAh,
vijAtiya tiraskriti. Mind has to be filled with thoughts on God. Absence of
bhogya padArtha in mind is called as vairAGYA. Only then mind can stay calm
and allow japa to happen. Only then consciousness can separate itself from
body / bodies, thoughts, emotions and various scenes that are created
inside mind. If you skip this preparatory step of turning the mind
introvert and creating ability to forget the world and focus only of
brahman or ISvara, then advaita would be very difficult.

Ramana Maharshi's Who Am I philosophy is very good, but is effective only
to very pure mind. He didnt even take support of OM to enter into samAdhi.
The goal of Self Enquiry is to effortlessly abide in our natural state -
samAdhi. Hence after enquiring Who Am I? the mind tries to locate the
source of thoughts, emotions and desires. The source of all is none other
than brahman. Hence after repeating Who am I, separation of Non-I takes
takes and mind naturally gets pushed towards it's source - Brahman
resulting in samAdhi. Who Am I is not a mental repetition, but an inner
exploration about our true nature.

Without foundation one cannot build castle and building foundation takes
time. More we try to rush, more our progress is stalled.


*Part - II - direct reply to vivek's question*

Liberation can only be attained through knowledge is true. Even when one
practices Japa, finally, mind transcends mind itself and enters into source
of mantra which is Brahman.

Initially, japa is in mind, then it connects with heart. Then it continues
by itself. Now, the force of thoughts is not so strong that it drags you
into thought process. You can detach yourself from thoughts. since mantra
continues by itself, now you can be aware of the source of mantra, from
where the mantra originates and terminates. Mind finally merges into the
source resulting in samAdhi.

In this process, initially there is mental effort to chant mantra and hence
it there is a saturation point. One cannot meditate for long hours as mind
gets stressed. Wise say, limited effort cannot give limitless results.
Hence little bit of japa cannot give you moksha, immortality, eternal
freedom. Hence no kind of karma can ever give moksha. Our journey is from
effort to effortless. Hence after becoming sakshi, one does not need to
make effort to chant mantra. You just have to observe.  Hence there is no
karma involved in it. When mind completely rests, then it merges in
samadhi. There is no mantra in this state. It is this non-dual knowledge,
abiding in Self that gives liberation. Liberation means to effortlessly and
permanently stay in this natural state of samadhi or sahaj samadhi in
Ramana Maharshi's words. Hence it is not that you enter into samadhi only
by doing japa. It is your own nature and hence you need not do anything.
But this instruction is only applicable to a person who has uproote all
other desires except one - I want moksha. For him, the instruction that
Liberation cannot be obtained through any other means than knowledge is
applicable. You dont need to meditate to achieve. Such high soul quits even
the desire to meditate and achieve moksha and as a result has no wish to do
anything. One immediately without any moments delay enters into samadhi.
Remember, all desires and sanchi karma has already been uprooted earlier.
Mind is almost empty. only desire left in mind is 'I want moksha'. To such
a high souled one this instruction is applicable.

After dhyana siddhi, one need to read shastras. Shastras are pointers. In
meditation Isvara or Guru takes the meditators to higher levels and finally
makes one experience nirvikalp samadhi. Though the stay in samadhi is only
for a few moments it is kike lion tasting blood. It does not like anything
else but wants to have more blood. By repeated entering into samadhi, the
desires are destroyed, mind is destroyed. It is not that after all desires
are destroyed for the first time, mind enters into samadhi and stays in it
permanently. IMHO this is not the case which some yogis believe. Hence not
be doing any karma, not by reading shastras but by repeated entering into
samadhi which is knowledge itself, one attains freedom.

Hari OM

"To disconnect from the self and to become Aware of anything else is
nothing but unhappiness" - Bhagawan Ramana Maharshi

He who has faith has all
He who lacks faith, lacks all
It is the faith int he name of lord that works wonders

On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 10:34 AM, kuntimaddi sadananda via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Subbuji - Pranama
> There are lot of confusion about Nirvikala Samadhi. Some one asked me this
> in facebook and I am still composing an answer to this question and now saw
> this email. There is a notion in the Ramana Maharshi groups that Vedanta
> study is not needed and one can sit and meditate and go beyond the mind and
> knowledge gets revealed to you.
>  Perhaps you can explain what exactly the nirvikapa samadhi and its role
> in the pursuit of truth.
> Hari Om!
> Sadananda
> --------------------------------------------
> On Tue, 6/30/15, V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>  Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] ***UNCHECKED*** Only Self knowledge gives
>  liberation...
>  To: "Vivek" <ammasfeet at icloud.com>, "A discussion group for Advaita
> Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>  Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2015, 12:47 AM
>  In Shankara's
>  Vedanta, meditation is nididhyāsanam that is taken up
>  after
>  shravanam and mananam.  This is the
>  only method Shankara has approved based
>  on
>  the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad 4.5.6:: आत्मा वा
>  अरे द्रष्टव्यः
>  श्रोतव्यो
>  मन्तव्यो
>  निदिध्यासितव्यो....One can
>  read the bhāṣyam for this.
>  subrahmanian.v
>  On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 5:33 AM, Vivek via
>  Advaita-l <
>  advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>  wrote:
>  > Still some
>  doubt is there. As Shankara says, "Meditation can not
>  give
>  > moksha" neither can any other
>  practices except Jnana.
>  >
>  > You said that Self knowledge will dawn
>  after intense meditation.
>  >
>  > Somehow it seems like a slight
>  contradiction from Shankara's words.
>  >
>  > Anyone wants to
>  elaborate on this?
>  >
>  >
>  Vivek.
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