[Advaita-l] ***UNCHECKED*** Re: Realization through Mind
ravikiranm108 at gmail.com
Sun Nov 9 11:10:27 CST 2014
Namaste Sujal Ji
Pranams. Thanks much for sharing this precise clarity.
On 11/9/14, Sujal Upadhyay <sujal.u at gmail.com> wrote:
> What experience you have is because of mind only. But to experience there
> has to be object of 'observation' that you can observe, see or be a
> witness. Sri Ramana Maharshi has explained that like like a fire after
> burning the corpse does not continue but extinguishes, similarly, with the
> help of mind and chanting mantra OM or by neti-neti, one can rise above
> When the object of observation vanishes, only the observer remains. But the
> term 'observer' is relative and indicates that there must be something to
> be 'observed' i.e. 'object of observation'. Hence only 'I' remains. Always
> remember that existence of 'I' is Self evident. Without the first person
> 'I', there cannot be 'you', the second person and 'he' the third' person.
> After all thoughts, desires, objects floating in mind are uprooted, only
> 'I' remains which is Brahman. Brahman can stay without mind, but not vice
> versa. Brahman is pure consciousness.
> Another example is of Pole Volt, in which an athlete runs with the long
> bamboo (mind). There is a horizontal cross bar that one is supposed to jump
> over it without touching it. After raising at a certain height and
> position, athlete drops this pole and jumps on the 'other side', into the
> infinite GYAnAkASa.
> Mind is nothing but continuous flow of thoughts. When there is no thought,
> no desire, then there is no mind too. Without mind, samsAra cannot be
> experienced, what remains is pure consciousness. AtmA lightens (empowers)
> mind and itself stay in mind and lightens giving an illusion that mind upon
> itself is chaitanya (subtle and Self Effulgent). But mind is like a moon.
> OM or any Self Enquiry, Neti-Neti does not remain after silencing the mind.
> Another example is of camphor. It is used to clean water. After cleaning
> dirt / impurities from water, it does not keep floating, but sinks to the
> Only that which is beyond mind can take you beyond mind. Hence Brahman is
> always to be contemplated. No matter who many thoughts some and go, like a
> chatak bird, never be satisfied with Non-Self, until you are permanently
> established in your true Self. Just like a Dog never forgets smell of his
> master (though he may catch other smells) and keeps tracing master by his
> smell, by never loosing the smell, so we should mediate on Brahman.
> Just like one can reach ocean by walking in the direction of sound of waves
> and just just like the invisible / cognizable ocean becomes visible upon
> reaching sea-shore, so shall this Brahman be clearly known.
> Just like when seeing shadow, Sun cannot be seen, but when we turn towards
> Sun, shadow cannot be been, so when in brAhmi sthiti, Brahman is clearly
> experienced (not separately), but not the samsAra. When one clearly
> experiences samsAra and duality, Brahman cannot be experienced.
> It is all or none theory.
> So rise above mind with the help of mind. Meditation is not to control
> thoughts, or keep focusing on thoughts or a mantra. But to be aware of the
> origin of a mantra which is silence, which is Brahman, which is 'I',
> 'Atman'. Mind calms down when one, by the grace of God and Guru, is able to
> be aware of the source of mantra.
> Sujal Upadhyay
> "To disconnect from the self and to become Aware of anything else is
> nothing but unhappiness" - Bhagawan Ramana Maharshi
> He who has faith has all
> He who lacks faith, lacks all
> It is the faith int he name of lord that works wonders
> FAITH IS LIFE, DOUBT IS DEATH - Sri Ramakrishna
> On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 11:54 AM, Ravi Kiran via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>> The mind is used to negate all the wrong notions about oneself (
>> tattwa vichaara) with the help of Sruti and Guru upadesha.
>> On 11/9/14, umesh ramaswamy via Advaita-l
>> <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>> > Respected Members,
>> > Vedas proclaim "Yato Vacho Nivartante Aprapya Manasasaha"....But looks
>> > one cannot go beyond mind because everything has to be cognized via
>> > mind
>> > only. Even during meditation if the mind is not centered it will wander
>> > over the places and realization cannot be had without the help of the
>> > I remember having read somewhere U.G.Krishnamurthy as saying, one
>> > cannot
>> > beyond mind, and since everything has to be cognized through mind,
>> > realization of Brahman (which is beyond mind) is a myth.
>> > Can someone elaborate how Advaitic Realization is possible going beyond
>> > Mind? Is Nidhidhyasana is also through mind?
>> > Regards,
>> > Umesh
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