[Advaita-l] The "adharma" of a Jnani...The inscrutable Miracles of Krishna
Sujal Upadhyay via Advaita-l
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
Tue May 6 13:11:47 CDT 2014
I agree with Sri Bhaskar Prabhu ji and Sri Anand ji.
Narasimh Mehta says, in presence of whom one experiences peace is a saint.
Instead of weighting anyone in the balance of 'miracle', one should gauge
in terms of experience. Calmness of mind or divine joy or a strong /
tinkling sensation / warmness / pressure on certain specific parts of body
/ flow of energy, etc is experienced by many.
Swami Ramsukhdas ji said that all GYAnI-s are full of power. According to
the divine plan, some display their siddhi-s, some do not. Exhibiting
siddhi-s is not a criteria of 'godlines'. CAngadeva was an example of a
un-realized, but the svAmI of panchmahAbhUta-s.
In presence of Sri Ramana Maharshi, some felt calmness, a deep peace and
one noted person was Swami Laxmanjoo of Kashmir Shaivism. Kanchi
Paramacharya acknowledged the state of 'Self Realization' of Sri Ramana
In presence of Sri Ramakrishna, many would go into ecstasy. Sri Chaintanya
Mahaprabhu and Sri Ramakrishna both had unique and extra-ordinary ability
to awaken 'sleeping spirituality' in any person by mere touch.
What I feel is, what you feel and experience in their presence is more
important. If you follow their instructions, then you get success, even
though you do not expect anything. e.g. if your Guru asks you to meditate
for 45 minutes, and you have never meditated and are not confident that
your can sit even for 10 minutes, still when you sit for first time and
then open your eyes, it is well past 45 minutes.
Faith and the spiritual transformation that one experiences is more
I know that there are certain claims by some saints and their disciples.
But thats the way it is. You got to experience it yourself then just
blindly believing. In company of saint, rooted in Self Realization, if you
have faith in him, slowly your mind will turn towards God by following
Also note that only person with purified chitta, of sattvik nature can have
divine experience in short time. If your chitta is not sattvik, and still
you keep gauging all saints, then this is not going to help you.
After regularly practising karma kand or in todays way, social service,
etc, mind becomes pure. Percentage of sattva guNa increases, faith in God
and shastras and in guru increases. Change is a slow process.
Transformation of mind, development of faith in God, love for God,
dispassion, etc sattvik guNa-s take time to develop. Without this sattvik
foundation, people should stop gauging saints. If you simply want a with
magical stick or a a tap on your head must give immediate transformation,
else this saint is a pAkhaNDI (a thug), then this approach is not correct.
Sattvik faith is not blind faith, nor is it superstition, nor does it make
one narrow minded or orthodox. On the contrary, a sceptical approach will
stop spiritual progress and not increase % of sattvik guNa in oneself.
Our intellect should be directed in way that devotion, faith in God
increases. Please do not tag experiences of sattvik, purified chitta as
'blind faith' and 'just a mental construction'
People also take certain words like 'we have limited intellect' and 'wise
men say that ...'. The definition of 'intellect' is different for a
spiritual person and a material person. It is linked with ability to
discriminate between Self and Non-Self AND ability to detach from Non-Self.
A small foetus gets life and grows to a 5-6 ft person is not a miracle, but
riving a dead men is !!!! How soul enters into a lifeless foetus? any
modern scientific explanation?
Men went to Moon, far away distant lifeless object, but they cannot
understand their own mind that is always with them from birth till death !!!
It is said that a Self Realized Guru is difficult to find, but a qualified
disciple is still hard to find.
"To disconnect from the self and to become Aware of anything else is
nothing but unhappiness" - Bhagawan Ramana Maharshi
He who has faith has all
He who lacks faith, lacks all
It is the faith int he name of lord that works wonders
FAITH IS LIFE, DOUBT IS DEATH - Sri Ramakrishna
On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 10:38 PM, S Jayanarayanan via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> There are two extremist positions:
> 1) Any action that goes against the dharma of ordinary people is adharma.
> 2) Any action of a so-called "master" who has gained followers among
> ordinary people must be dharma.
> For reasons already stated in the original post, both the positions are
> The key phrase where they both stumble is "ordinary people".
> A dharma shaastra only gives rules and regulations to govern ordinary
> people. It does not lay down the rules for Masters of Yoga, since they are
> extraordinary people who CANNOT be governed by dharma shaastras.
> How can one know a true Master of Yoga?
> I don't know. (When I become a Master of Yoga, I surely will let everyone
> know ;-) )
> But I have my personal opinions. The scriptures speak of those who are
> aligned to the path of dharma in virtually every way - speaking the truth,
> abiding by the rules of the society, respecting the elders, etc. But when
> these people encounter challenging situations or circumstances, they
> exhibit their Mastery over Yoga so that those around them are left
> These are known in English as "Miracles" - that are perfomed by Saints.
> The closest Sanskrit equivalent is Yoga Siddhi.
> If one is to prove his or her mastery of Yoga, then one should show the
> ability to perform what I would call a "Über-Miracle" - something that
> cannot possibly be explained by any natural agency that is commonly known.
> Examples of Über-Miracles include:
> 1) Reviving a dead person who is declared dead by all experts in medicine
> (Krishna and Sankara).
> 2) Drinking up the oceans (Agastya).
> 3) Lifting a mountain with one's bare hands (Krishna).
> 4) Raining gold from the sky (Sankara).
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