[Advaita-l] 'world' is not the mental creation of tiny soul !!
v.subrahmanian at gmail.com
Thu Mar 27 02:28:34 CDT 2014
On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 8:12 AM, kuntimaddi sadananda <
kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Subbuji - PraNAms
> What I have mentioned is local mind cannot create and then cognize and
> then say that it is illusion. That is not Vedanta. Global mind, yes- which
> we call Iswara.
> The above sloka you quoted is in tune with my statement.
Dear Sri Sada ji,
The bhAgavatam verse is not about any global mind called Hiranyagarbha. It
is about the individual's mind who is being addressed in those verses. The
verse is an upadesha for Uddhava, an individual and not Hiranyagarbha. To
him the Lord says: whatever is comprehended by the instrumentality of the
mind, senses, etc. is mAyAmanomayam, an imagination, reverie. The Lord is
not talking of Hiranyagarbha/Ishwara's creation for they do not use the
mind, senses, etc. for apprehending the world. Also, it would be
irrelevant to Uddhava to talk of Ishwara's creation and asking him to see
it as mAyAmanomayam. Uddhava cannot correct Ishwara's projection.
> Hence- sa kaale satyavat bhaati PRABHODE satyasat bhavet - says Shankara -
> applicable to both dream creation and creation in the waking world. The key
> word is prabhode - All the slokas that you quoted can be correctly
> interpreted from the perspective of jnaani than ajnaani where one shifts to
> aatama-anaatma reference.
What the Jnani realizes is the path, practice, for the ajnani. Also, in
the manIshA panchakam verse, the Jnani says: all this is imagined by me
through avidyA. Where is avidyA for Jnani?
> As you know the Advaita makaranda sloka you mentioned -... jagat gandharva
> pattanam -comes as the third sloka - after establishing that aham
> brahmaasmi in the first two slokas and even in that sloka it says -
> sarvajnam sarvakaaraNam - that does not pertain to the local mind.
The shloka is addressed to the ajnani for contemplation, practice. He is
not to be tied down to the local mind; he has to expand, elevate himself to
the higher prakriyA of eka jIva construct and view all others, others'
minds, etc. as the projection of his own mind.
> My point is one has to obviously interpret smRiti slokas in consistent
> with Vedanta. I am sure you agree with that. The point is only to come up
> what is the correct interpretation that is in tune with Vedanta.
In fact the question does not arise at all, as I pointed out that Shankara
Himself is commenting on the shruti-creation bahu syAm prajAyeya as
'rope-snake like projection, an imagination of the mind.' It is already in
tune with the bhAgavatam /advaitamakaranada/manishApanchakam etc. verses.
So, if the charge of wrongly interpreting the bhAgavatam smRti verse is
raised, it is first applicable to Shankara.
> This is my understanding : As long as one is in the triad format -
> jiiva-jagat-Iswara- which involves I am a jiiva notion with the local BMI
> as I am, the creation is not by that local mind and after creating perceive
> with the mind that it has mind created all the attributive world that it
> perceives using again its senses and then cognize it as if it is there
> outside that local BMI.
Actually, the adhyAsa bhashya itself is the ground for the eka-jIva vAda
construct. There itself we have the avidyA-base for the pramAtru, his
mind, sense organs, reactions, etc.
> Even for praatibhaasika one uses the attributive content of the snake or
> ghost from the memory that is projected on the object. atasmin tat buddhiH
> involves (a) the object that is there that mind did not create, (b) the
> projection of attributes of another object from the memory based on (c) the
> prior perception of the object that the mind did not create before.
All these questions are answered by Advaitins. There is anAdi adhyAsa and
the question of any prior knowledge of the object superimposed is not there
to be addressed. It is enough if the object is unreal.
> I must say that so far my understanding has not been negated - that the
> creation is not by the local mind but by the global mind, where local mind
> only cognizes as well as transacts with what is created by the global mind.
> This transactions can continue even after jaanam. As I mentioned, local
> mind can create on top of what is created by global mind due to its raaga
> dweshaas which we call as jiiva shRiShTi in contrast to Iswara shRiShTi as
> vidyaranaya discusses in 4th Chapter of Pancadashi. Jiiva sRiShTi is the
> cause for samsaara and not Iswara sRiShTi. The difference is very important
> from jnaanam point, which I know that you know.
Actually in that very chapter, soon after the above referenced verses,
Vidyaranya wants the aspirant to take steps to eradicate the 'entire'
dvaitam. pl. ref. to verses 38 onwards of that chapter. He says: the
jIva-created dvaitam can be subdued during dhyAna/samAdh but that will not
put an end to his re-birth cycles. For that he has to know that the entire
dvaitam (not just jIva-created) has to be known to be mithyA.
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