[Advaita-l] 'world' is not the mental creation of tiny soul !!
kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com
Wed Mar 26 05:23:36 CDT 2014
On Wed, 3/26/14, Venkatesh Murthy <vmurthy36 at gmail.com> wrote:
Namaste Sri Sadananda
It is true we have to do Brahma Jijnaasaa not Avidyaa Jijnaasaa. But to do Brahma Jijnaasaa we have to know what is preventing us from knowing Brahma.
Why? Because Brahma is not a new thing to be known. It is already there but we do not know it. Why? Because there is Avidyaa stopping us from knowing.
You can see why we have to remove Avidyaa. To know Brahman.
If you say I don't care who has Avidyaa there will be a problem. If I have to know Brahman I have to remove Avidyaa. But if Avidyaa is not my
Avidyaa why and how I have to try to remove it? I have to say Avidyaa is my Avidyaa but not some other person. Now I can make sincere attempts to remove Avidyaa.
Shree Venkatesh Murthy - PraNAms
What you mentioned is correct. Avidya belongs to the one who does not know I am Brahamn or more correctly does not know he is the very source of infinite happiness. Yes avidya is centered on jiiva who is looking for happiness outside. No one disputes that.
This aspect is different from creation of the world, cognition of the world that consists of many beings and non-beings. This is not jiiva’s creation. I as a jiiva cannot create and cannot cognize. Jiiva-jagat-Iswara come as package when I have a notion that I am jiiva or as the title says tiny jiiva. Tiny jiiva enters into the world and exists from the world and goes to different worlds of experiences. Coming and going of jiiva are as real as the world that he cognizes. They are of the same order of reality along with the existence and cognition of infinite number of tiny jiivas in each world that the jiiva experiences. Scriptures declare - let me become many and he became many- bahusyaam prajaayeyeti. At this stage we do not call as jiiva’s creation since many jiivas or beings and objects for enjoyment are getting manifested. Hence it is not tiny jiiva that is creating but Iswara is creating.
When one says avidya is the cause for creation, true but yet avidya janya karmas (vaasanaas) of all jiivas and not just that of one jiiva are the cause for creation of particular type of universe – waking or dream universes.
Iswara cannot have avidya, by definition, since he is Iswara with Sarvajnatvam and sarvashaktitvam, sarvavyaapakatvam, etc. But yet avidyaa janya karma is responsible for creation, we have to resort to the maaya concept which is sum total of all vaasanaas put together which forms the creative forces or Shakti for Iswara to create. In essence Iswara hands are tied – he creates only as per the demand of all the jiivas who want to experience their karma phalam. Hence the Iswara sRishTi does not just depend on a tiny jiiva but all jiivas in the creation. This is what scriptures teach us.
Even though avidya is the cuase for avidya janya karma but not just one jiiva but all jiivas put togher – the sum total becomes maayaa Shakti of Iswara only. All this is self-consistent as long as one has the I am a jiiva notion is there.
Hence some total of all avidya(s) or all jivas at macro level is maaya as parameswara Shakti.
Only when jiiva notions is dropped by knowledge then the existence of all other jiivas and the world reduces to mithyaa and becomes vibhuuti – At that point one can either say aatma-vibhuuti or Iswara-vibhuti since aatma and Iswara and even Brahman all –as though- resolved into one substantive for the whole creation. Either we talk from the point of jnaani where there is no more local tiny jiiva or other jiivas when everything is reduced to aatma-anaatma or we talk from the point of triad – jiiva-jagat-Iswara where there are many jiivas all with ignorance of the aatma-anaatma diad. One cannot have one step here and one step there to saythat this creation is due to avidya of a local tiny jiiva – that involves jumping one leg here and one leg there. Each jiiva can have his own creation due to his raaga/dweshaas and that cause samsaara for that jiiva while the samsaara of other jiiva depends on his raaga/dweshaas. Vidyaranya discusses jiiva sRiShTi
and Iswara sRiShTi in Ch. 4 of Pancadashi.
Venkatesh Murthy :
Vaishnavas do not understand this logic. They simply say Advaitis are
Maayaa Vaadis. To know Brahma the only thing required is to remove Avidyaa.Then already existing Brahma will be known automatically. Noextra effort required.
Shree Venkatesh – I mentioned about Ramanuja’s shree bhaashhya where he criticizes the avidya of Advaita. One should study that to see the arguments presented. VishishTaadvaita also accepts anaadi avidya for jiiva’s problems. However their avidya is different from that advaita. For them also maaya is there as creative power and they extensively quote the sloka – daiviim esha guNa mayi mama maayaa duratyayaa, maam evaye prapadyante maayaametam tarantite – the mayaa of mine is of divine origin and one cannot cross this maaya by self-effort. It can be done only by surrendering to Me – hence Sharanaagati is emphasized. While vishiSTaadvaitins are vaishnavaites, all vaishnavaites are not vishiShTaadvaitins.
With this I rest.
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