[Advaita-l] Jiiva at Satya Loka - Will He or Won't He come back

Jaldhar H. Vyas via Advaita-l advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
Tue Jun 3 13:39:45 CDT 2014

On Wed, 28 May 2014, kuntimaddi sadananda wrote:

> PraNAms.  No, it is not I who made that statement. . Please check again.


> The question I posed was not for somebody going to Satya loka - but 
> about the Viraj himself -Bri. Up says - he was alone and found that he 
> was alone. He was afraid and thinking there there is no one else, and 
> then reasoned himself that there is no reason for him to be afraid since 
> there is no one else to be afraid of . Hence the scripture makes the 
> famous statement - dviteeyaadvai bhayam bhavati.


> Scriptures does not say here directly that knowing that I am alone is 
> the knowledge of aham bhramaasmi.

You are right but I feel you are missing the point somewhat.

> Shankara Bhaashya seems to indicate that by self-analysis he has gained 
> the knowledge that I am Brahman. And then Shankara poses a purvapaksha - 
> Who taught Viraj that jnaanam, since there was no teacher to teach 
> Viraj?
> Even though the purvapaksha was provided, I found that the extensive 
> analysis by Shankara does not address the question posed in the 
> purvapaksha. Hence I was seeking clarification if any one can address 
> that. I also mentioned in the same situation in Bhagavatam, Iswara 
> himself comes in the form of Hamsa and teaches - that is Hamsa Geeta. 
> This is part of Uddhava Geeta.

Well in the bhashya points out that the question that comes with an 
inbuilt presumption -- that there must be a second entity to teach 
self-analysis.  But Viraj Prajapati is in a class by Himself.  His very 
nature is to be filled with jnana.  So when the inevitable eruptions of 
embodied existence occur, He can quell them through his own Lordly powers.
So to the extent that Shankaracharya is not answering the question it is 
only because the question is malformed.

> This does not pertain to krama mukti of jiivas going there that the 
> questionnaire posed here - By their upaasana they do not become Viraj 
> but only go upto Satya loka.

Viraj/Purusha/Prajapati (multiple names are used to illustrate the 
different aspects) is the foremost of the class of upasakas.

sa yatpUrvo.asmAtsarvasmAtsarVAtsarvAnpAShmana auShattasmAtpuruShaH

It is like a Prime Minister is a member of the class of Members of 
Parliament but being the foremost, has abilities that an ordinary MP does 

> To become Viraj one has to extensive upaasanas outlined in Bri. Up or in 
> Tai. Up.

Yes.  But there is a link to kramamukti too.

> In krama mukti the karmas 
> take jiiva up to Satya loka and there they have to gain the knowledge by 
> attending Brahmaji's classes - he takes one class in every 32 years or 
> so, as per Chandogya. Up. Jiiva has to return back if he does not attend 
> Vedanta classes there - aabrahma bhuvanAlokAH punarAvarti nOrujna, says 
> Krishna in 8th Ch.
8.16 to be precise.

AbrahmabhuvanallokAH punarAvartino.arjuna |
mAmupetya tu kaunteya punarjanma na vidyate || 16 ||

"[All the] worlds from Brahma's abode [inclusive] are subject to return 
Arjuna. But on reaching me Kaunteya, know there is no rebirth."

"attending classes" is a very imprecise translation of "reaching me"! 
Also because kramamuktas are reborn in brahmaloka does not mean all who 
are in brahmaloka are kramamuktas.

Shankaracharyas comments on this shloka are very short so he must think it 
does not need further interpretation.  Mainly he just notes that all the 
worlds are limited by time i.e. subject to creation and destruction.

The return mentioned in there is not to samsara but the pralaya in which 
all the worlds and their inhabitants are destroyed and reabsorbed into 
Brahman.  The kramamuktas are not affected by that pralaya.

Shridharacharya in his tika on the Gita spells it out more.

brahmalokasyApi vinAshitvAt tatratyAnAmanutpannaGYAnAnAmavashyaM 
bhAvipunarjanma ya evaM kramamuktiphalAbhirupAsanAbhirbrahmalokaM 
prAptAsteShAmeva tatrotpannaGYAnAnAM brahmaNA saha mokShaH

"Even Brahmaloka is also subject to destruction and anyone there who lacks 
the rise of jnana must also undergo rebirth.  those who have attained 
kramamukti through upasana also attain the Brahmaloka and there upon the 
rise of jnana they are liberated along with Brahma."

The first and foremost of those upasakas, i.e.those who have "reached" 
hiranyagarbha, is as I said before in a class by himself and he becomes 
Viraj of the next world-cycle.  When that cycle ends, he too will complete 
his liberation along with the kramamuktas of that era.

But those who at any time have "reached" Krishna Bhagavan (realized 
nirguna jnana) are liberated directly without this roundabout process of 
even one final rebirth in brahmaloka.  This is the tatparya of the shloka.

As this mail has already gotten long, I'll address the other issues 
brought up separately.

Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>

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