[Advaita-l] Eka Jiiva Vaada - one perspective.
srirudra at gmail.com
Mon Apr 7 10:04:21 CDT 2014
How do you say or come to a conclusion that -there is no rule that tiny Jiva can only imagine and create things less intelligent than himself-.How do you measure the capacities of a Jeeva?Premises should be well founded.If there are any scriptural references please do present them.We can not assume things and build arguments on them.R.Krishnamoorthy.
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> On 07-Apr-2014, at 9:50 am, Venkatesh Murthy <vmurthy36 at gmail.com> wrote:
> We have to look at the whole situation from Brahman side. Not only Jeeva
> If we start with Brahman the One Reality also we get the same conclusion.
> Brahman is the One Reality. There is no other. Then how did the One become
> Many? By Duality called as Maayaa. Brahman has become the Jagat. Brahman
> has become the Jeevas and Brahman has become Ishwara also. But this
> becoming is Maayaa. It has not really happened. But Brahman has not still
> realized this.
> How can Brahman go back to its Non Duality condition? It has created many
> Jeevas with Body and Mind. In every single Jeeva there is only One and the
> Same Brahman. If one Jeeva can use its Mind with Brahma Jijnaasaa to think
> about the One Reality and realize Brahman the One Brahman has realized Its
> true nature and is liberated from Maayaa. If One Jeeva causes liberation of
> the bound Brahman this is sufficient for Brahman's complete liberation from
> If someone says how can liberation by one Jeeva causes liberation of all
> Jeevas this is a silly question. There are no Jeevas at all. The correct
> number of Jeevas is Zero. Because Brahman has become bound by Maayaa It
> thinks there are many Jeevas with Body and Mind. If One Jeeva realizes
> Brahman that is sufficient to Brahman to get liberated. After Liberation by
> one Jeeva the other Jeevas will not exist. The one Jeeva also will not
> This analysis is also pointing to Eka Jeeva Vaada.
> On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 9:41 AM, Venkatesh Murthy <vmurthy36 at gmail.com>wrote:
>> 'The notion of an "intelligence explosion" was first described thus by Good
>> who speculated on the effects of superhuman machines:
>> Let an ultraintelligent machine be defined as a machine that can far
>> surpass all the intellectual activities of any man however clever. Since
>> the design of machines is one of these intellectual activities, an
>> ultraintelligent machine could design even better machines; there would
>> then unquestionably be an 'intelligence explosion,' and the intelligence of
>> man would be left far behind. Thus the first ultraintelligent machine is
>> the last invention that man need ever make.'
>> Two important points. 1. Man can build Ultra Intelligent Machine. 2. The
>> intelligence of Ultra Intelligent Machine will leave intelligence of man
>> far behind.
>> There is no rule 'tiny Jeeva' can only imagine and create things less
>> intelligent than himself. His Imagination Power is Maayaa Sakti. This
>> Maayaa Sakti can create superior persons like gods more intelligent than
>> man. It can create also Ishwara with Sarvajnatva. That Sarvajna Ishwara
>> will create the whole world seen by Jeeva in waking. All this is imagined
>> by Jeeva in dream and waking both. In Sushupti the Maaya Sakti is not
>> working. He cannot see anything.
>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 1:00 PM, V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>wrote:
>>> On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 9:32 AM, Venkatesh Murthy <vmurthy36 at gmail.com
>>>> Like this it is possible the Jeeva can imagine and create very
>>>> things like Computers and even God. The Power of Imagination is coming
>>>> Maayaa. It is the Cause. But Maayaa is also imagined by Jeeva's Avidyaa.
>>>> The whole Universe is a mental Construction only in the mind of one
>>> It would be significant to observe two statements for Shankaracharya's
>>> Bhashyam on the above theme:
>>> The first is from the Sutra Bhashya: 1.3.30:
>>> //svApaprabodhayoshcha pralaya-prabhavau srUyete, 'yadA suptaH svapnam na
>>> kanchana pashyati atha asmin prANa evaikadhA bhavati tadainam
>>> vAk-sarvair-nAmabhiH sahApyeti chakShuH sarvai rUpaiH sahApyeti srotram
>>> sarvaiH shabdaiH sahApyeti manaH sarvairdhyAnaiH sahApyeti sa yadA
>>> pratibudhyate yathA agneH jvalataH sarvA disho visphulingA vipratiShTheran
>>> evam eva etasmAdAtmanaH sarve prANA yathayatanam vipratiShThante prANebhyo
>>> devA devebhyo lokAH' iti. (kAuShItakI up. III.3.
>>> Translation of the bhAShya along with the passage of the shruti cited
>>> [Dissolution and creation in sleep and waking are heard of in the Veda as
>>> 'When a man who is asleep does not see any dream, he becomes unified in
>>> this prANa (Supreme Atman) Itself. Then, the organ of speech, together
>>> with all the names, merges in prANa (Supreme Atman), the organ of sight,
>>> together with all forms merges in prANa (Su.Atman), the organ of hearing,
>>> together with all sounds, merges in prANa (su.Atman), the min, together
>>> with all thoughts, merges in praNA (su.Atman).
>>> When he awakens, then, just as sparks fly out in all directions from a
>>> blazing fire, from this Supreme Atman, all the organ s go forth to their
>>> seats, from the organs, emerge the presiding deities and from the
>>> deities, emerge the sense-objects ( (kAuShItakI up. III.3) ] //
>>> In the above passage the merger(laya) and emergence (sRShTi) of not just
>>> the organs and the mind but also of all names, forms, sounds, and thus of
>>> the world of waking, has been specified. Were Shankaracharya to hjave
>>> deemed the world of waking state to have a reality in thorough contrast to
>>> the falsity of a dream, He could not have justifiably averred that it is
>>> dissolved when a person does not see it, when asleep, and that it is
>>> created when the person does, on awakening. His declaration is, however,
>>> quite fitting if He did take the world of the waking state to be on par
>>> with a dream or a rope-snake (which example He has used in the 'bahu syAm
>>> prajAyeya'.. of the Cha.up. 6.2.3 for explaining Brahman creating the
>>> world) whose existence cannot be asserted in the absence of the dream or a
>>> rope being so seen by a person (buddhi parikalpitena, imagined by the
>>> intellect, as Shankara says in the above cited Ch.bhAShya).
>>> It is here the authoritative gloss, the bhAShyaratnaprabhA explains the
>>> cited BSB passage thus:
>>> svapnavat kalpitasya ajnAtasattAbhAvAt darshanam sRShTiH adarshanam layaH
>>> iti dRShTi-sRShTipakShaH shrutyabhireta iti bhAvaH (BSB 1.3.30)
>>> [Because that which is fancied like a dream has no existence when it is
>>> apprehended, perception is creation and non-perception is dissolution.
>>> Upanishad (kauShItakI that Shankara cites as proof for this ) approves of
>>> this view that perception is creation. This is the idea.]
>>> It is worthy of noting that the entire kShetram, the observed universe,
>>> described succinctly in the BG 13.6 and 7 verses is encapsulated in the
>>> above upanishad/bhashya as the one that gets dissolved, disappears, when
>>> not seen/cognized, as in sleep and emerging, created, when cognition again
>>> commences when waking occurs. The most significant part of the upanishad
>>> is that the presiding deities, deva-s and the objects (loka-s) too get
>>> 'created during cognition', thus affirming the 'cognition is creation'
>>> The Second passage from Shankara is from the Br.up.Bhashya 2.i.18
>>> (ajAtashatru brAhmaNam):
>>> tasmAt svapne mRShA adhyaropita eva AtmabhUtatvena lokA avidyamAnA eva
>>> santaH tathA jAgarite api iti pratyetavyam.
>>> [Therefore, in the dream state, worlds that are not at all real are
>>> superimposed as being of the self. *One must understand that such is the
>>> case in the waking state too*.]
>>> [I have not done spelling and grammar checks for the above.]
>>> So, the idea that the fourteen loka-s meant for bhogya of the jIva-s are
>>> created by Ishwara alone and not by the jiva is not borne out by the above
>>> bhashya/shruti passages.
>>> warm regards
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