[Advaita-l] 'Ishwaro'ham' and 'IshwarabhAvaH'

Rajaram Venkataramani rajaramvenk at gmail.com
Fri Sep 20 13:39:39 CDT 2013

> As per Advaita seeing anything as different from Atman is due to
> ignorance.  And the apprehending of a form of Ishwara is no exception.
> Even for a jivanmukta, the vision of a form is only vyavaharika satyam, for
> Atman can never become an object.  'pUjArtham kalpitam dvaitam....'. In the
> case of the jnani, these events are in the category of 'bAdhitAnuvRtti'
> [the continuance, for a while, the unbinding effect of the nescience
> negated due to Knowledge.]
RV: Sankara considers the Lord as the Self not anAtman.

4.6 Api, san ajah, though I am birthless; and avyayatma, undecaying by
nature, though I am naturally possessed of an undiminishing power of
Knowledge; and so also api san, though; isvarah, the Lord, natural Ruler;
bhutanam, of beings, from Brahma to a clump of grass; (still) adhisthaya,
by subjugating; svam, My own; prakrtim, Prakrti, the Maya of Visnu
consisting of the three gunas, under whose; spell the whole world exists,
and deluded by which one does not know one's own *Self*, Vasudeva;-by
subjugating that Prakrti of Mine, sambhavami, I take birth, appear to
become embodeid, as though born; atma-mayaya, by means of My own Maya; but
not in reality like an ordinary man. It is being stated when and why that
birth occurs:

>  Shankara's all-encompassing statement is already cited in the past:
> Br.sutra bhashyam 2.1.14:
> तदेवमविद्यात्मकोपाधिपरिच्छेदापेक्षमेवेश्वरस्येश्वरत्वं सर्वज्ञत्वं
> सर्वशक्तित्वं च न परमार्थतो विद्यायापास्तसर्वोपाधिस्वरूप
> आत्मनीशित्रीशितव्यसर्वज्ञत्वादिव्यवहार उपपद्यते ।
> //Thus, * only in the realm of the ignorance-created *upAdhis are
> Ishwara's Lordship, Omniscience and Omnipotence, and not in the
> pAramArthika realm which implies that the ignorance-created upAdhis have
> been negated/dispelled by True knowledge.  In this post-negation scenario
> the ignorance-realm of Ishwara-Ishitavya (ruler-ruled) duality and
> omniscience, etc. do not have a place.//
RV:  In the same BSB 2.1.14, the nirupadhika brahman is called sarvajna. I
have cited this and also said that in many places nirupadhika brahman is
called Ishwara and Ishwara is called the Self. When the pot is broken,
there will obviously be no knowledge of the pot and its effects such as
space outside and inside or any difference between space outside and
inside. It does not mean that space was negated. When the Brahman appears
in this world, He is Brahman only. The following is a playful
interpretation of this because you cite it way too often and derive every
conclusion from one paragraph. " In this post-negation scenario the
of Ishwara-Ishitavya (ruler-ruled) duality and omniscience, etc. do not
have a place. Hari and His bhaktas are one. There is no duality of ruler
and ruled between them. They cover their knowledge with their own power
which makes the impossible possible for the purpose of enacting the lila of
stealing  butter. Omniscience does not have a place there. They are
powerless when Yasoda chastises them and binds Damodara. So, there is no
omnipotence. Where is the omnipresence of the Lord for the liberated gopis
who cannot see Him suddenly?"

> All forms of Ishwara (actually MS has not admitted any eternal form for
> the Advaitic concept of Ishwara who lasts till time lasts, in other words,
> vyavahaarika) that occur owing to avatAra, to bless aspirants, etc. come
> within the range of the above bhashyam pronouncement.
RV: Please see the detailed response I gave to your previous post.  He
clearly admits of an eternal form of Ishwara.

> English translation by Swami Gambhirananda (on Sri Sankaracharya's
> Sanskrit Commentary)
> BG 5.15 Vibhuh, the Omnipresent; na adatte, neither accepts; kasyacit,
> anybody's-even a adevotee's; papam, sin; na ca eva, nor even; does He
> accept sukrtam, virtue offered by devotees. Why then are such virtuous
> acts as worship etc. as also sacrifices, charity, oblation, etc.offered by
> devotees? To this the Lord says: Jnanam, knowledge, discriminating wisdom;
> remains avrtam, covered; ajnanena, by ignorance. Tena, thereby; jantavah,
> the creatures, the non-discriminating people in the world; muhyanti, become
> deluded thus-'I do; I make others do; I eat; I make others eat.'
> Thus, the Lord Himself acknowledges everything that comes in the range of
> devotion is ignorance-based and forms of Ishwara are definitely in this
> range.
RV:There is a sea of difference between acts of devotion (sadhana bhakti)
talked of here and devotion, which is sAkshAt Ishwara.

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