[Advaita-l] Reply to Sri Vidyamanya Tirtha's observations
H S Chandramouli
hschandramouli at gmail.com
Thu Nov 28 07:39:13 CST 2013
Dear Sri Bhaskarji,
let me first clarify/summarize what i have stated in my earlier mails as
the views of Bhagavatpada.
1. Sadhanas are available leading the sadhaka to moksha but not in this
birth itself. These sadhanas are available to all the Ashramis. The
sadhanas generally go under the name of upasanas/vidyas.
2.Sadhanas are available leading to moksha in this birth itself. This is
called sadyomukti/.videhamukti/jivanmukti. The Sadhana principally consists
of Nididhyasana for successful completion of which Sanyasa Ashrama ( fourth
Order of Life ) is absolutely essential.
I would like to repeat that these are Bhagavatpada's views as i have
understood and for which i have already given supporting bhashya references.
The quotes you have given from mundaka and chandogya bhashyas essentially
prove the same conclusion. For example in the mundaka quote you have given,
both the above are covered. The first half of the quote refers to category
1 above ( jnana matrepi ) while the second half of the quote refers to
category 2.( jnana leading to moksha here itself ). It is common practice
in the shrutis that both the phala in both are termed jnana. The quote from
Chndogya is also to be similarly understood. You have yourself mentioned
jjapa/upavasa etc are recommended by Bhagavatpada. Certainly. But i am sure
you agree that , according to Bhagavatpada, these lcan lead to moksha but
not in this birth itself.
I am not able to get references to this subject in this forum during
previous years. Had i known about it i wouldnt have gone through this
exercise. But having gone through it already and perhaps wasted the time of
the members , ther is nothing i could do now to correct the mistake except
apologizing for the same. Which i do heartily.
Even this am writing only to correctly summarize what i had mentioned
earlier since i felt from the comments received they were not appreciated
in proper perspective.
On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 10:45 AM, Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com> wrote:
> Dear Sri Bhaskarji,
> > praNAms Sri Chandramouli prabhuji
> Hare Krishna
> frstly a sadhka who has gone through the sadhana almost to completuion but
> does not get jnana due to pratibandhakas he is not considered a patita. He
> continues from this level in his future births and when the pratibandhaka
> is overcome he automatically gets jnana. This is what is stated by Lord
> Krishna in the Geetha as well as mentioned by Bhagavatpada in Sutra
> > prabhuji Kindly noted I am not talking about the sAdhaka-s who could
> not get jnAna due to pratibandhaka-s and those sAdhaka-s conducive
> subsequent janma-s. I am talking about the sAdhaka-s who were in saNyAsa
> Ashrama as saNyAsi-s in their previous janma and gruhastha-s in
> gruhasthAshrama in current janma..For this type of descending order of
> Ashrama there is no any prayaschitta !! shankara says in
> apashUdrAdhikaraNa, vidurAdi-s have got the jnAna & become jnAni-s due to
> their previous janma saMskAra, it does not mean that these noble souls
> were invariably saNyAsi-s in their previous janma.
> As for jnana being adheena to sanyasaashrama, i really feel you are not
> serious in making such a statement.
> > I think if any one persists that for jnAna to occur saNyAsa as an
> ashrama is must, then it is as good as saying jnAna is sanyAsa Ashrama
> adheena and there will be no chance of getting jnAna for the inhabitants
> of other three Ashrama-s!! I dont think shankara insisted the Ashrama
> saNyAsa in this way!!
> By saying only good persons can attain jnana, are we making jnana adheena
> to goodness.
> > I am not saying jnAna is adheena to only goodness. If you see the
> prathama sUtra of vedAnta sUtra, shankara discusses the qualification that
> is required for doing brahma jignAsa. Here I dont think shankara says
> only saNyAsi-s have the adhikAra to do brahma jignAsa and eligible to
> attain svarUpa jnAna.
> Eligibility of various ashramis is extensively discussed by Bhagavatpada
> under Sutra Bhashyas 3-4-17 to 3-4-20.
> > I remembered that we have discussed these sUtra bhAshya adhikaraNa
> also in our previous discussion. Here shankara saying how sanyAsa as an
> order enshrined in both smruti and shruti and ofcourse here he says
> brahmanishTa pravrAjakatva can be possible to only parivrAjaka saNyAsi-s
> and this would be difficult to achieve for the other three Ashramites
> since they have their own respective karma-s to perform. But, the point
> to be noted here, bhagavatpAda does not categorically deny the mOksha /
> jnAna to other three ashramites. OTOH, just see what shankara says on
> mOkshAdhikAra / jnAnAdhikAra. In the muNdaka shruti, he clearly says :
> jnAnamAtre yadyapi sarvAshramiNAM adhikAraH, and in geeta bhAshya :
> streeyO vyshyasthathA shUdrAstepi yAnti parAM gatiM and in sUtra bhAshya
> shankara says through sAmAnya sAdhana-s ( applicable to all
> ashrama-s/varNa-s) like japa, upavAsa, devatArAdhana etc. which is not
> against shAstra one can get vidyA.
> As also in Chandogya 2-23-1.
> > And in this same chAndOgya shruti shankara explicitly says jnAna can
> happen even in gruhasthAshrama also and for these gruhasthA-s pArivrAjyaM
> is arthasiddhaM!! etena gruhasthasya ekatva vijnAne sati pArivrAjyaM
> arthasiddhaM. and further, if you see elsewhere in geeta bhAshya shankara
> says pravruttena chet lOkasaMgrahArthaM nivruttena chet jeevanamAtrArthaM
> taM, jnAnAgnidagdha karmANaM. statement like this would definitely convey
> the message that jnAna is not the sole property sanyAsa ashrama. It can
> happen to anyone, anytime irrespective of his/her social status. And this
> is what we have seen in the cases of ramaNa maharshi, rAmakrishna
> paramahaMsa, yAgnAvalkya, janaka, nachiketa, dhruva, yamadharma, maitreyi,
> gArgi, dharma vyAdha, vidhura, saMvarta, raikva etc. Kindly refer
> bhagavatpAda bhAshya on geeta verses like yasya sarve samAraMbhAH, kAma
> saMkalpavarjitAH jnAnAgni dagdhakarmANaM tamAhuH paNditaM budhAH and the
> next verse tyaktvA karmaphalAsaMgaM, nitya truptO nirAshrayaH,
> karmaNyabhipravruttOpi, naiva kiMchit karOti saH in fourth adhyAya...IMHO,
> these verses meant to show us that there is jnAni in other Ashrama-s also
> who seem to be doing karma.
> I am not aware of earlier discussions in this forum dating several years
> > Kindly search the archieves prabhuji with appropriate search terms you
> would get the relevant thread. Anyway, I cannot give you the relevant
> link as I dont have internet access.
> It would be a pity if you were to come to conclusions without going
> these extensive and engrossing bhashyas. I do urge you at least as a
> of further interest to do so and then reply.
> > thanks for your suggestion prabhuji.
> Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
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