[Advaita-l] Reply to Sri Vidyamanya Tirtha's observations
sridhar.nithin at gmail.com
Tue Nov 26 02:39:28 CST 2013
As far as I can understand, the possible scenarios that can arise are-
1. One performs Karma Anushtana during Grihasta and Upasana during
Vanaprasta and develops chitta-shuddhi and overcomes desires.
2. One performs Karma Anushtana and Upasana during Grihasta and develops
Chitta-Shuddhi and Overcomes desires.
3. One is by birth has dispassion, discrimination etc and is free from
impurities of mind.
4. One is ever-free from Birth.
5. One performs Karma Anushtana through out the life without attaining
discrimination and dispassion.
6. One lives life without regard for Dharma and Karma.
In the case of 1 & 2, after the purification of mind is attained and
impurities destroyed, a person may go through any of following scenario-
a. The person has complete viveka and vairagya and with a single
instruction from Guru/Shastras will attain Jnana immediately.
b. The person may have to perform extensive sravana, manana and
Niddhidhyasa for through out life and later either attain Jnana before
death or will die without attaining Jnana.
In the case of 3, the person may take Samyasa in childhood itself and may
follow course either through "a" or through "b".
In case of 4, the person is ever-free. He is born only for some divine
In case of 5 & 6, there is no attainment of Jnana. But, 5 is bound to get
better next life and 6 is bound to suffer.
Hence, as Shankara says, Karmas cannot result in Jnana directly, but only
results in Chitta-Shuddhi. And after purification of mind, some people are
able to attain Aparoksha Jnana with a single Sravana and some are able to
attain Jnana after extensive practice of sravana chatushtaya and yet many
are unable to attain Jnana in that very life.
On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 11:45 AM, Venkatesh Murthy <vmurthy36 at gmail.com>wrote:
> Namaste Vidyasankar
> There is a book in Google books - Mimansa and Advaita. If you read the book
> you can see Kumarila and Mandana and Adi Sankara are all saying Nitya Karma
> is for PapaKshaya and Citta Suddhi. Kumarila is supporting Moksha also. He
> is saying no point in going to heaven and enjoying all the time. When Citta
> Suddhi happens the Jnana is automatic because in Nitya Karma Upanishad
> reading is also included. Adi Sankara is making this statement in Br Up 4 -
> 4 - 22. When he reads Vedas and Upanishad daily with Purified Mind the
> Upanishad Vakya Jnana will happen automatically.
> I am not saying Guru is not required. Guru will only teach Upanishads but
> student without Citta Suddhi will not get Jnana. He has to practice Nitya
> Karma including reading and meditating on Upanishads. Mandana is saying
> both meditation and Yajnas will be required.
> All these years the olden Vedantists and modern Vedantists have argued Adi
> Sankara is against Yajnas. But it is a lie. Adi Sankara supported Yajnas if
> they are Nitya Karma.
> On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 9:27 PM, Vidyasankar Sundaresan <
> svidyasankar at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > But a Gruhastha has every right to purify his mind with Nitya Karmas
> > > Sandhyavandana and many Yajnas. He can practice Karma Yoga. By
> > Purification
> > > of mind he will come to the door step of Atma Jnana. He can do Sravana,
> > > Manana and Nididhyasana of Upanishad Vakyas and become Atma Jnani. He
> > > used all the portions of the Veda like Mantras, Brahmanas and
> > to
> > > get Atma Jnana. Then he can take Vidvat Sanyasa.
> > So, what happened to your earlier stance that yajnAdi karmA-s are
> > for
> > realizing brahman AFTER the knowledge, ahaM brahmAsmi, has already
> > And please note that vidvat saMnyAsa is not something that is to be given
> > or
> > taken. It just is, as the natural state of brahmanishThA. No karmA is
> > possible
> > or even necessary as a step toward brahman realization for vidvat
> > saMnyAsin-s.
> > > In Br Up 4-4-22 Adi Sankara is explaining the path for Brahmana
> > Gruhasthas.
> > > They can get Atma Jnana easily by following Karma Yoga itself. By
> > following
> > > Karma they can come almost full distance to Moksha.
> > Whence this "almost full distance"? What is the step involved in covering
> > that
> > last remaining gap? Read further and go to Br Up 4-4-23, where the text
> > says,
> > SAnto-dAnta-uparatas-titikshus-samAhitaH and read the bhAshya thereon,
> > where Sankara bhagavatpAda introduces the word saMnyAsa, highlighting the
> > importance he gives to this ASrama.
> > That said, going from brahmacaryASrama directly to saMnyAsa is a rarity.
> > The
> > typical path that would apply to most people is one of progressing
> > the various ASrama-s, with saMnyAsa as the final stage. Everything prior
> > that is preparatory. After saMnyAsa, how can yajnAdi karmA-s be possible,
> > whether as means to brahman realization or otherwise? A gRhastha, who is
> > attached to the performance of karmA till the very end, is not eligible
> > saMnyAsa, either of the vividishA or the vidvat kind. Which means he is
> > a brahmajnAnI, as he is still subject to kartRtva buddhi, one of the
> > effects
> > of avidyA.
> > > The tragedy is most of the Vyakhyana Karas have not understood the
> > > concessions Adi Sankara has given to Brahmana Gruhasthas. They are all
> > > misunderstanding the importance of Karma and saying silly things about
> > > Karma like Karma is useless for Brahma Jnana. They are not realizing
> > > PARTS of Veda are important for Atma Jnana. Karma Kanda is not inferior
> > > and Upanishads are not superior. Both have a role.
> > Which vyAkhyAna-kAras are you talking about here? None of the traditional
> > authors has misunderstood the importance of karmA for those who are not
> > ready for saMnyAsa. But at the end, there is an important step of the
> > giving
> > up of all karmA, either through a formal renunciation process or as a
> > natural
> > state of jnAna. At the end, jnAna stands apart from karmA.
> > The core concept of jnAna-karma-samuccaya vAda, that karmA is needed for
> > realizing brahman after the rise of upanishad-vAkyajanita jnAna, is
> > utterly and
> > completely rejected by Sankara. If you think that those who talk about
> > this are
> > mistaken when they seem to thereby devalue karmA, please go back to my
> > first
> > question to you in this response.
> > Best regards,
> > Vidyasankar
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