[Advaita-l] FW: Saakshii-Jiiva-Iswara Analysis - VII

Ranga Rathnam sranga1955 at hotmail.com
Sat Mar 30 08:32:41 CDT 2013

Sree Sadanandaji,


That was a neat response to a naive question. Thanks.

Also thanks for providing me pointer to a book. I couldn't get access to it immediately, but I was
able to get Satish Chandra Vidyabhusana's English Translation of Gotama's Sutras with Vatsyayana's commentary.
With a quick search through the index I found that Book IV, Chapter II Topic 3 deals precisely with this subject.
Summary of the topic is very clear about the ramifications involved. It suggests that 'inside' of an atom is not defined, question of ether pervading it does not arise. Only ponderable or corporeal items which are always in conjunction with ether are pervaded by it. A lot of other issues are also thrashed out, I have to take time to understand them.

My doubt is, while Advaita shares 'oneness of space' concept with nyaya-philosophy, it has to part company when nyaya 
says there are 'real' atoms that exist 'in space'.

Your moonlight sunlight example is also very refreshing and thought provoking.
Once again thanks for your articles and clarifications.

Best Regards

> Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 15:24:48 -0700
> From: kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com
> To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] FW:  Saakshii-Jiiva-Iswara Analysis - VII
> Shree Ranga Rathnam - PraNAms. Thanks for your comments. 
> Here is my understanding.  
> As per tarka sangraha of Annambhatta-( See - A primer of Indian Logic, by Prof. Kuppuswami Sastri)  they have 9 fundamental substances - and space is one of them. Sound is its quality and is considered as all-pervading and eternal. Paricchinnatvam or division (into atomic size) or movement are not compatible with the all-pervasiveness and eternity of space. Hence for tarkikaas also, space is indivisible and all pervasive. Since it is subtler than other substances such as pRithivi, vAyu, Fire and water which can be subdivided into their finest particles- paramaanus, space can pervade them without out inhereing in them or not having any relationship with them. 
> The point Nischaladaasa and also Goudapaada makes is potspace or ear-space, appear to be conditioned for transactions while space as such is unconditionable and indivisible. Consciousness is subtler than space.  
> Just returned to States and will continue with the series. 
> Hari Om!
> Sadananda
> >________________________________
> > From: Ranga Rathnam <sranga1955 at hotmail.com>
> >To: "advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> 
> >Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2013 1:26 AM
> >Subject: [Advaita-l] FW:  Saakshii-Jiiva-Iswara Analysis - VII
> >  
> >
> >
> >From: sranga1955 at hotmail.com
> >To: kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com
> >Subject: RE: [Advaita-l] Saakshii-Jiiva-Iswara Analysis - VII
> >Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 08:30:42 +0530
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Excellent, lucid, concise writeup. Waiting for the next part, but meanwhile thought of asking a question.
> >
> >You say tarkikaas accept oneness of space.
> >What exactly is meant by that? I thought the 5 elements were made up of atoms according to nyaya-vaiseshika darshana. Does it mean that akasha has only one atom? 
> >
> >If a person immerses an object in water, the atoms of water move and give way to the object.
> >If akasha is one and has no parts how can objects exist 'in space'
> >
> >Doesn't oneness of space and a realist philosophy conflict each other?
> >
> >Regards
> >Rangarathnam
> >
> >> Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 08:20:49 -0700
> >> From: kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com
> >> To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org; advaitin at yahoogroups.com
> >> Subject: [Advaita-l] Saakshii-Jiiva-Iswara Analysis - VII
> >> 
> >>  
> >> Analysis of
> >> Saakshii, Jiiva And Iswara
> >> Based on
> >> Vichaarasaagara of Nischaladaasa - VII
> >>  
> >
> >>  
> >> Oneness of the all-pervading space in spite of
> >> apparent divisions due to upAdhis or walls is accepted by all systems of Indian
> >> philosophy, including nyaaya vaisheshikas, or the tarkikaas or the logicians.
> >> While functions and properties of conditioned spaces (vishiShTa Akaasha) differ
> >> depending on the upAdhis, space itself is considered as unconditioned, uncontaminated,
> >> indivisible and all-pervading subtler entity compared to the apparently
> >> limiting adjuncts, the upAdhis. Nischaladaasa uses this example later in
> >> refuting the puurvapakshi. The relation between the pot-space and total space
> >> is not of the type involving part and the total (amsha-amshI or avayava-avayavI
> >> sambandha), since space cannot be parted. Consciousness is subtler than the
> >> space, since existence-consciousness remains in deep sleep state even when
> >> space and time are swallowed. Space is the first element that is born out of
> >> aatma, in the order of creation, as per Tai. Up. 
> >>  
> >
> >                                                     
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