[Advaita-l] I am Alone in the Universe?
rajaramvenk at gmail.com
rajaramvenk at gmail.com
Wed Mar 13 02:58:09 CDT 2013
Venkatesh, in eka jiva vada also there are many jivas only that the many jivas are a reflection of the prototype jiva, which is a reflection of brahman or ishwara on avidya. This prototype jiva reflects on the minds to create many jivas.
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From: kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>
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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 23:09:23
To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Reply-To: kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>,
A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
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Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] I am Alone in the Universe?
> From: Venkatesh Murthy <vmurthy36 at gmail.com>
>Sir - there is no object in waking and dream. I am seeing Myself and
>thinking I am seeing different things. All the time I am experiencing
>Myself but by mistake I am thinking I am seeing different things and
Shree Venkatesh - PraNAms
As I see it, there seems to be
some problem in the above understanding of advaita Vedanta. Only in the deep
sleep state there are no objects perceived, since perceiving mind is not there.
Therefore the existence of the objects there is indeterminate or anirvacaniiyam. However,
there are objects both in the waking and dream states. In both states, the
objects are the creation of the corresponding Iswara and not by local jiiva. Advaita is not the
same as Idealism of West. In essence, the perceiving mind and the objects that
are perceived are of the same order of reality.
Your above statement, therefore
applies only when I understood that I am the Brahman at paaramaarthika level -
that is knowledge. Even that jnaani also sees the objects, but understood that
the objects that he sees are not absolutely real but only transactionally real
- i.e. - they are mithyaa. Mithyaa does not negate the objects but only negates
notion of reality attributed to the perceived objects. Clear understanding of
this is required.
>In Aneka Jeeva Vada people are thinking there are many Jeevas like
>them in the Universe. They will say all these people have Jeevas like
>me. They are also trying to get Jnana like me. If one Jeeva get
>Moksha the other Jeevas will be here in the world. Still they will be
>trying to get Moksha. The Universe will be there also. It becomes very
>very complicated if we think like this. Aneka Jeeva Vada is not wrong.
>It is also correct like Eka Jeeva Vada but it is complicated.
Sir - I do not understand what
you mean by wrong or right. One can have any vaada that one likes. I would not
like get into arguments with different vaadas. We are here discussing about the
truth as expounded by advaita Vedanta. Yes, I do agree that confusions can be
complicated; however understanding should be clear. Maayaa is at the Iswara
level while avidyaa is at jiiva's level. It is the local mind that has
confusion about the reality of the plurality that it perceives. The knowledge
has to be gained, not by global mind since Iswara at the total mind is
sarvajnaH; the knowledge has to be
gained by the local mind. The self-realization is at the local mind level – It recognizes
or re-cognizes that I am not different from the total mind. That understanding
has to come to the local mind which has notion of separateness from the total
mind. When that understanding comes it sees oneness that pervades the totality
and that oneness is the self that he is. Hence jnaanam is at the local mind
level - that local mind which takes itself that it is separate from the
totality, needs education that there is only one adhiShTaanam that pervades the
apparent plurality -that is Brahman and by mahaavaakya - prajnaanam brahma - it
is of the nature of consciousness -limitless. Hence any unconscious entities
cannot be real and there cannot be any divisions in the consciousness. That
knowledge is gained by the local mind. From his point the plurality that he
sees becomes vibhuuti. Hence from that jnaani's point there are beings and objects yet he sees himself as the adhiShTaanam for all that he sees. That is the knowledge that differs from the experience of the apparent plurality since plurality is experienced at the BMI level.
>In Eka Jeeva Vadad we have to think like this. I am always dreaming.
>These people are only in My dream. They have no Jeeva like Me. Only I
>am the Single Jeeva. My body and mind are also dream objects. I am
>Alone in the Universe. I have Created the Universe. Brahma cannot
>create Universe. I have created Ishvara and I am worshipping the dream
>God. If I want the dream to end I have to go to dream Guru and get
>instructions in dream Vedanta. Then I will realize I am Brahma. Then
>this big dream will end. This is Moksha. Then I will be Brahman. Again
>I am Alone. But I am not dreaming. There is no Universe remaining.
>There are no Jeevas remaining.
from Jnaani’s point it is not thinking or conceptualization– it is recognition or realization or clear understanding that the plurality is that he sees is only apparent and not real. Hence all beings and
non-beings are just my own vibhuuti or for politeness can say that it is Iswara’s
Vibhuuti. Krishna says – mayaa tam idam sarvam jagat avyakta muurtinaa-
mastaani sarva bhuutaani – I pervade this entire universe in unmanifested form –
all beings are in Me. However in the very next sloka He says – na ca mastaani
bhuutaani – pasyam me yogamaiswaram – There are no beings in Me – and look at
my Glory, Arjuna. Contradictory statements are first from the vyavahaara point
and the next are from paaramaarthika point. If one understand this clearly
there should not be any confusion. In essence pluarality exists at
vyaavahaarika level where ahankaara operates and understanding at the local mind level or jnaani level is
that the plurality that I see is not absolutely real – but apparently real. Ring
that has confusion that I am different from gold, when it becomes a jnaani, it recognizes
that I am that gold that pervades all the ornaments, I am in all of them and
yet I am none of the them – I am pure gold unaffected by the names and forms
that I take for transactional purposes.
my friend is advaita Vedanta that I know. The rest, as I said, is confusion compounded.
With this I stop.
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