[Advaita-l] I am Alone in the Universe?
swami.sarvabhutananda at gmail.com
Fri Mar 8 05:17:22 CST 2013
Basic requirement in the pursuit of VEDANTA is 'shraddA' in shruti and GURU.
Then making one eligible for the knowledge- sAdanachatushtaya sampatti.
Then then viparitabhAvanA gets processed.
On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 3:11 AM, Venkatesh Murthy <vmurthy36 at gmail.com>wrote:
> Namaste Sri Bhaskar
> The Upanisad has said Neha Nana Asti Kinchana. There cannot be many
> Jeevas but only one. That one Jeeva is me. There is no use for
> accepting Nana Jeevas are existing in the Universe. The Samashti and
> Vyashti Upadhis may be there for explaining and arguing with dull
> opponent schools.
> For Advaitis it is not necessary to say all 7 billion people in the
> world are so many Jeevas existing with me. These 7 billion people are
> there only because I am dreaming of them. They are parts of my dream.
> This is the direct straightforward approach.
> I said earlier also there is no Ishvara, Hiranyagarbha and others
> separate from my dream. They are also existing because I am dreaming
> about them.
> But I cannot say I am the only dreamer so I will do what I want. I
> will not care for any rules. Because Dharma and Moksha Shastra is
> also in my dream. I have to obey that if I want the dream to be nice.
> Otherwise my dream will become bad. I don;t want to suffer in the
> dream. I want to have a nice dream. For this I have to follow the
> dream Dharma Shastra.
> But if I follow only Dharma Shastra I will have a good dream but I
> will not wake up and realize Reality. To wake up I have to study the
> dream Moksha Shastra. But first I must do Sadhana Chatushtaya. Then I
> can study Vedanta. But I have to study it with another so called
> Jeeva. This is the Guru. I am dreaming this Guru also.
> You have said we cannot do Sadhana if we follow Eka Jeeva Vada. But
> above I have given reasons for doing Sadhana. If you do Sadhana of
> Dharma the dream will be good It will not make you to suffer in it.
> But it will not wake you up. For that you have to do Sadhana of Moksha
> Both Dharma Marga and Moksha Marga are available in your dream. Athato
> Dharma Jijnasa and Athato Brahma Jijnasa are in your dream. Both
> Sadhanas can be done.
> On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 3:25 PM, Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com> wrote:
> > praNAms
> > Hare Krishna
> > There is no advantage to use Nana Jeeva Vada.
> >> IMO, there is no use either by asserting others are in my dream & I am
> > alone in this universe without realizing that truth.
> > What you explain in Nana Jeeva Vada can be explained far better in Eka
> > Jeeva Vada.
> >> upAdhi vishesha jeeva bedha is not my explanation prabhuji, it has been
> > explained by shankara bhagavatpAda himself in sUtra bhAshya (3rd adhyAya
> > think). There is a mention about samashti upAdi (hiraNyagarbha) and
> > vyashti upAdhi i.e. bhOkta in various places of prasthAna traya bhAshya.
> > In Nana Jeeva Vada you have to accept all people in the world are
> > Jeevas like you. Then you have Vyavahara with them.
> >> Yes, with that notion only we can transact rationally in this world
> > with 'other' jeeva-s. Because, as I said before we are doing vyavahAra
> > this jagat through vyashti (individual) upAdhi.
> > In Eka Jeeva Vada you have accept the people in world are part of your
> > dream.
> >> this does not serve any purpose IMO, because by merely calling other
> > people in world are in my dream does not stop us doing vyavahAra with
> > in a normal & sensible way. And if we want to treat other people & jagat
> > mithya or dream, first we have to realize that ours' upAdhi which is
> > seeing this dream is also mithyA or in that cosmic dream. And it can be
> > noted that we dont have to call other people are mere dream to realize
> > ekatva, there is a sAdhana called 'nityAnitya vastu viveka' in advaita,
> > that does not necessarily ask us to treat 'others' are in dream and I am
> > the ONLY person real in this universe who is standing outside of that
> > dream. A right discrimination (viveka) between temporary & permanent
> > things is enough to carry out this sAdhana effectively.
> > You can have Vyavahara also with them and follow all rules of Shastras
> > because you want your dream to be good. If you follow Shastras and
> > rules and regulations it will make your dream good. Nobody wants to
> > have a bad dream.
> >> prabhuji, IMHO, you are just calling the normal vyavahAra of this jagat
> > as dream but that is not quite necessary and obligatory stand to do
> > advaita sAdhana . Coz. simply labelling the jagat & other jeeva-s as
> > dream does not take us anywhere in sAdhana. By attributing the temporary
> > reality (vyAvahArika satyatvaM) to these transactions also we can
> > in our sAdhana mArga.
> >> But as a side note, shankara somewhere in sUtra bhAshya answers a
> > question : whether this perceived jagat (in waking state) is like dream??
> > No, shankara clarifies, what we see in waking state, like AkAsha, bhUmi
> > etc. is not dream, it is Ishwara srushti, whereas what we see in dream is
> > not pAramArthika Ishwara srushti and there is not even an iota of
> > in svapna srushti. In 3rd adhyAya of vedAnta sUtra shankara discusses
> > this topic.
> > You can continue to follow all Shastras and Vidhis and continue to
> > have a good dream. The Shastras and rules and regulations will make
> > your dream good but they cannot make you realize Reality. But
> > somewhere you will feel how long I have to be dreaming like this? I am
> > fed up with this dream. The dream is not real. I am getting stuck in
> > it. I want to experience reality. The answer to end your dream is in
> > your dream itself. Then you will go to the dream Guru and get dream
> > Vedanta instructions. They will make you realize Reality.
> >> Yes, ultimately we realize that even shAstra and mOksha too loukika
> > vyavahAra only, whether you call it dream vyavahAra or anything else we
> > have to do sAdhana to realize that we are dreamless awareness. Let that
> > sAdhana be in dream ONLY, if the dream tiger roars we would definitely
> > wake up to the 'jAgrat'. So, anubhava of that dream would definitely
> > its own 'reality'. :-))
> > Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
> > bhaskar
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