[Advaita-l] Unmanifest and its Secrets

Rajaram Venkataramani rajaramvenk at gmail.com
Tue Jul 9 07:12:14 CDT 2013

The supreme state that you talk about is the state of Vishnu, parameshwara
(tad vishnO: paramam padam). It is incorrect to state that no one has
achieved it because Vishnu is in that state. It is also incorrect to state
that no one can because all of us can. In fact, all of us are in that state
and can realise that through pure devotion devoid of interest in any type
of liberation including ekatvam. The following is the pramana from Srimad
Bhagavatham for this. If you want, there is enough evidence for this in
Sankara Bhashya also. If you serve Vishnu and not accept any of the five
types of liberation, you attain the state of Vishnu, which is beyond three

sālokya-sārsti-sāmīpya- sārūpya*ikatvam* apy uta  dīyamānam* na grhnanti*vinā
*mat-sevanam* janāh (3.29.13)
sa eva bhakti-yogākhya ātyantika udāhṛtaḥ yen*ātivrajya tri-guṇaṁ* *
mad-bhāvāyopapadyate* (3.29.14)

Regarding eternality of Krishna's body, which seems to miss even the
greatest of scholars who say that his bodies come and go, Madhsudana says
this after a lot of analysis, "Hence it is reasonable that I have taught
this yoga to Vivasvan and you *through this body which is verily eternal*".
(Gudarthadipika 4.6). Our bodies, including that of Ramana, Ramakrishna,
Vivekananda, Sivanannda, Chinmaya, Dayananda, Mata Amrtananda Mayi, Sri Sri
Ravisankara, Sai Baba, Sankaracharyas etc. - unless they are known to be
avataras through valid pramanas -   are panchabautika and perishable but
Krishna's form is aprakrta mayarUpam and imperishable.

On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 11:38 AM, Shrinivas Gadkari
<sgadkari2001 at yahoo.com>wrote:

> Namaste,
> tattvas can be classified into three categories:
> 1. shuddha
> 2. shuddha-ashuddha
> 3. ashuddha
> shuddha tattvas belong to the domain of nirguNa brahma.
> ashuddha tattvas belong to the domain of jIva.
> The most interesting is the second category which though a
> product of Adi mAyA - has not been corrupted to fall into the
> domain of the jIva. This is the level at which there is
> freedom from limitations of jIva. This is the world of
> Ishavara. If I understand correctly, this is the state
> of "moksha". At this level there are forms that are
> shAshavata, nitya. This is where the vaikuNtha, kailasa
> exist. The state of asymptotic perfection at this level
> is the state of saguNa brahma.
> Based on my understanding:
> State 3 - state of jIva is the one that we seek to liberate
> ourselves from.
> State 1- state of nirguNa brahma is to be "known" - this cannot
> be attained. No one, has attained this state. Not shrI krishNa,
> not shrI rAma, not shrI Vishnu, not shrI shiva, not shrI Adi shankara,
> no saint, no one at all.
> State 2 - state of saguNa brahama is all anyone can aspire to
> asymptotically attain (note again the word "asymptotically").
> I find the particular flavour of Vedanta that is advocated by many
> list members, where they are trying to reach State-3 from State-1,
> a little amusing to say the least.
> What then is the value of the knowledge of nirguNa brahma"?
> In State-3 there is avidyA. avidyA is not understanding how
> the nirguNa brahma gets projected as saguNa vishva. It is
> the progressive removal of this avidyA by knowledge of
> nirguNa brahma that enables one to establish one in the
> State-2. upAsanA/ sAdhanA is the means to achieve this.
> avidyA is anAdi and ananta. It is removed only asymptotically.
> hari om.
> Regards,
> Shrinivas
> >How about giving our dharma some chance? The bodies of the realised
> >masters are made of 5 elements born of karma. Rama and Krishna have
> eternal
> >bodies not born of karma.
> >
> There are some problems in such a thinking.  All the bodies, Rama, Krishna,
> etc. appeared at a particular point of time and also disappeared after the
> purpose for which they specifically appeared.  The Lord Himself
> acknowledges this in the 4th ch. of the BG: bahUni mE vyatItAni janmAni
> tava
> cha arjuna....Many lives of Mine have passed...also yours....A 'janma'
> cannot be without a body and that is what the Lord, as Parameswara, is
> referring to here.  We cannot say that those bodies are eternal any more
> than the bodies of humans, however exalted they might have been.  Even
> today, and all times to come, such great personalities who have lived and
> passed away, can be related to/with by devotees.  They appear in the
> waking, in forms of visions, and in dreams too, to bless these devotees.
> So are the forms of Rama, Krishna, etc.  It is only in that way their
> bodies can be said to be eternal.  An ardent devotee has every right to
> hold his Acharya to be an avatAra.  He might very strongly argue that his
> Acharya descended on this earth to  bless him and others and that his birth
> is not karma-driven.  Such beliefs will certainly give some benefits to the
> person who holds them.
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