[Advaita-l] Eternal Loka
sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com
Tue Aug 13 17:10:04 CDT 2013
Yes, Creation is only from the Vyavaharika point of view and there is no dispute in that. The Creation is through the agency of Ishwara's Maya or Prakrti and the role (of Maya or Prakrti) lasts as long as the creation is there and that ends in the Pralaya. Vedanta does recognize Ishwara and his creation. The Advaitin goes to the level of Jivan -mukti or birthlessness, i.e. beyond the gunas of the Maya or the Prakrti and at that stage realizes the oneness with the Nirguna Brahman. There is no difference between the Saguna Brahman (Ishwara) and Nirguna Brahman as long as one understands that the Saguna is the state where Brahman creates the world with his three gunas of the Maya or the Prakrti.
Yes, I agree with you that so much of discussion and hair-splitting may not be necessary on the current thread.
From: kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>
To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 2:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Eternal Loka
Sunilji - All the creation is only from the vyavahaara point - not from paaramaarthika point. From the so-called vyavahaara point only the avidya is anaadi and maaya will continue till all the jiivas have realized. One can all it as eternal if one wants it as long as it is understood the term itself is only at the vyavahaara level. Brahman remains substratum of jiiva-jagat-Iswara since there cannot be anything other than Brahman. Ontologically Brahman and sRishTi have different degrees of reality. The whole question has no meaning if you transgress the reference states from which the topic is discussed.
Anyway I have no intension to continue from my side other than wondering why so much discussion on the topic which is rather trivial from the point of advaita.
From: Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com>
>To: kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>; "advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 4:42 PM
>Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Eternal Loka
>The Vedanta (Mudgala Upanishad) does speak about the creation from a quarter of the Brahman. The creation from a quarter of Him is not eternal but He (Brahman) is.
>From: kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>
>To: Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com>; A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 10:52 AM
>Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Eternal Loka
>Sunilji - PraNAms
>Brahman being one without a second - any further description of nirguna or saguna, jiiva, jagat etc from the Brahman point is irrelavent.
>From Vedanta point, in Pralaya ,there is still Iswara with all the jiivas and jagat in potential form - just like in laya or our deep sleep state where the individual mind with its vaasanas are in potential form ready to manifest just as we left, once the mind is awake. Same way the pralaya is the deep-sleep state at macrocosam level, where macro BMI goes to sleep - where maaya with all the karmas of all jiivas still remain but in potential form. One can say that during pralaya, Iswara is in yoga nidra. Hence the trigunaatmika prakRiti is in potential form ready to manifest based on the karmas of previous sRishTi as the basis. It is relatively eternal since ignorance and thus maaya is anaadi. The whole creation can only disappear completely only when all the jiivas realize, and that may never happen - hence it is said as eternal at the transactional level only - at this level not only Iswara but jiiva and jagat too are eternal but all exist in
>potential form. Just as in laya we cannot make any distinctions of any kind, in pralaya aslo we cannot make any distinctions of jiiva-jagat-Iswara also. laya and pralaya are exact conter parts the first one at jiiva level and the second one at virat level.
>Brahman is advitiiyam - one without a second - hence no sajaati vijati swagata bhedas in Brahman and nothing can be said about Brahman since no words can reach there - including the word advaita. Advaita is only with reference to dvaita - negation of the reality to the duality.
>Just as jiiva is eternal so is Iswara - but both are at vyaavahaarika level only. At paaramaarthika level there is no jiiva, no jagat and whether we like it not - no Iswara also. No time concept also to says even it is eternal or ephemeral.
>I am surprised why so many posts of these trivialities.
>From: Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com>
>>To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>>Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 1:15 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Eternal Loka
>>It appears that there is a confusion among the scholars as to whether Ishwara and Nirguna Brahman are one and the same or are different. This is happening because the scholars very often forget that He had the desire to be many and that desire-laden state of His is the Ishwara (Apara Brahman) and there is the creation. When that desire is over He is back to His old state and the pralaya is nothing but a statement of this. Nirguna Brahman and Ishwara were never two different entities.
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