[Advaita-l] Ishwara Turiya?

ShankaraBharadwaj Khandavalli shankarabharadwaj at yahoo.com
Fri Mar 9 03:33:44 CST 2012

Namaste Ramesh,

The sub-classification is done in some cases. When sthula-sukshma-karana are the first three, the fourth is brahman. Some traditions introduce a mahA kAraNa which is called turIya (and thus the mahA kAraNa or Isvara becomes fourth or turIya), in which case the absolute becomes fifth or turIyAtIta. The mahA kAraNa is not the same as Mandukya's turIya, it is the turIyAtIta in that terminology that becomes equivalent of Mandukya's turIya. 

Ramesh Krishnamurthy rkmurthy at gmail.com 

Thu Mar  8 23:45:49 CST 2012 
On 8 March 2012 22:45,  <rajaramvenk at gmail.com> wrote:
<< So, your position is that there are only four states, no fifth as
stated in Sri Subramanian's mail. Also Ishwara is not turiya as stated
by Sri Devanathan. Did I understand you right?>> While Vidyasankar may respond separately, I might add here that even
turIya is not, strictly speaking, a "state". Rather it is a reference
to the shuddha chaitanya (=Atman) that is the invariable across all
states. The avasthAtraya analysis considers the 3 commonly experienced
states (waking, dreaming, deep sleep) and explains the turIya as the
invariable across these. The term 'chaturtha' used in the mANDUkya
means "the fourth" but the number 4 is figurative and does not connote
a distinct state. In other words, turIya is not a distinct state to be experienced.
Rather, it is understood as the invariable across all experiences, or
"Experience" itself. turIya represents my svarUpa as which
nirupAdhika, whereas the regular 3 states are aupAdhika. Needless to say, if the term turIya is understood properly, the idea
of a "fifth state" becomes meaningless. On Ishvara (savisheSha brahman) not being turIya, I am in full
agreement with Sri Subrahmanian. 

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