[Advaita-l] mleccha-s not eligible to take Hinduism??
vadhula at yahoo.com
Sat Jul 14 10:22:24 CDT 2012
Pranam to all,
1.Than you Vidyasankarji for answering my questions on those examples and mentioning that a competent Guru would not dharmically advise/allow those things. It must be noted if those occur; there is nothing he can do about it.
2.But a competent Guru would not give /allow Upanayana samskara for a Scandanavian is it is against shastras as that person is outside of chaturvarna. I have read in Sanatana Dharma and Hindutva by AH Srinivas whwere quotes Poorataapani Upanishad and Adi Shankara's commentary on it that giving Gayatri Upadesha, etc to those without adhikara is harmful to that an-adhikari. So a competent Guru would not do that.
3.The fact that purohits conducted a wedding of a Caucasian Male and Brahmin female; does not mean it is an exception and it against shastras as it is the performance of Upanayana of the son of the Caucasian Male and Brahmin female. Now there was no Competent Guru in those situations; Just purohits who performed them. They may compelled to do so as they may be employed by temples that are egalitarian in the West or due to societal changes.
4.Sringeri Shankaracharya giving mantra-upadesha is not against shastras and he is not granting veda-adhikara.
5.SriVaishnavas state Ramanujacharya did not convert non Brahmins into Brahmins. Nor did he grant veda-adhikara to non Dvijas. He made people Sri Vaishnavas and gave mantra-upadesha.
6.I asked Pandit Mahesh Shastri of mypanchang.com if by birth a male is a lower varna than female can marry as long as horoscopes are of same varna; his reply was from shastric standpoint: NO.
7.Exceptions in puraanas as truly exceptional figures and beyond any ordinary human birth. Now IMHO, but contemporary examples mentioned are not extra-ordinary (And neither are those with adhikara). Many figures in puraanas were Divine birth and beyond convention. I have heard that Vishwamitra through tapas acquired a new body akin to new birth and then became a Braahmana.
8.The Kuli Marathas are Kshatriyas (96 or shan-nava clans) and Kunbi Marathas are Shudras. It is possible that Shivaji was a Kshatriya Bandhu as his forefathers may have lapsed in undergoing Upanayana. I had a personal email from a representative for the Rana of Udaipur and he stated Shvaji's ancestor is a descendant from the Sisodiya Rajput clan of Udaipur.
9.In most situations from what I read on this list and other; regardless of how good/bad we are: varna remains the same. Ravana did worse things than many of us (Such as myself,Vidya,Jaldhar, and Praveen who is in UK) who reside in the West and committing mlechcha samparka. Ashwathama and Duryodhana did also worse things. Now this does mean it is dharmic or acceptable as per shastras. But we all have our same varna that we are born into.
10.Now many Brahmins do not perform sandhya, etc and there more of such than the number of an-adhikaris seeking spiritual solace from our religion. Now mantra-upadesha and spiritual upliftment without violating veda-adhikara is absolutely fine and acceptable to an-adhikaris. Now Braahamana Brahsthas also want spiritual solace so if they approach a Guru; then he should tell them to give up Yagnopaveeta, etc as they defaulted on their veda-adhikara using the same argument to give Yagnopaveeta to an an-adhikari as that person is more sincere than a Brashtha Braahmana. But I don't think a Competent Guru would do that; rather he would goad the Braahmana Brashthas to mend themselves and get back on the right track.
11.To answer Rajaram; please read Hindu Dharma at www.kamakoti.org that will explain varna by birth better than I can or ask Shri Jaldhar Vyas who knows more than I do.
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