[Advaita-l] Prapatti - Jiiva and Iswara

Kalyan K kalyankc.81 at gmail.com
Mon Feb 20 09:52:26 CST 2012

Dear Sri Subramanian,

>'pramAtA' is the one who is called the jIva.  It is this entity that has
>identification with the mind and sense organs and considers himself to be
>the knower/doer/enjoyer.  The first of these is called 'jnAtA'. In the
>latter roles he is given the epithet 'kartA' and 'bhoktA'.  The mind,
>technically, is not endowed with the power to know; it has the reflection
>of consciousness in it which enables knowledge.

If jIva is the knower there must be many knowers, since the jIvas are many.
But why does the upanishad say that there is no other knower but the Self?
(bRhadAraNyaka 3.7.23). As far as being kartA and bhoktA are concerned, the
scriptures never attribute these to the Self, but why do the upanishads say
that there is no other knower but the Self?

>The logic in Vedanta for this is: when sukha or duHkha is
>experienced, it is a vRtti in the mind, but since mind cannot be said to
>know itself owing to the kartR-karma virodha (the subject and object,
>knower and known cannot be the same entity), the knower/awarer of the vRtti
>in the mind is said to be the Self/sAkShi.

Can I summarize the above as - "The Self knows the vRtti in the mind and
the mind knows the objects"? If yes, then there are multiple minds and
there should be multiple knowers.


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