[Advaita-l] Prapatti - Jiiva and Iswara

V Subrahmanian v.subrahmanian at gmail.com
Mon Feb 20 03:04:45 CST 2012

On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 11:43 AM, Rajaram Venkataramani <
rajaramvenk at gmail.com> wrote:

> > Before creation and after dissolution, Ishwara does not have
> Hiranyagarbha
> > and Virata rupams. But He exists and creates as before. As He creates, He
> > has creative power and as He does it as before, He has sarvanjnatvam. How
> > can His sarvajnatvam be dependent on Hiranyagarbha and Virata?

In Advaita Ishwara is said to be trikAlajnAni, His omniscience not stemming
from any sensorial activity but is admitted to be 'nityasiddha'.  He is
ever-omniscient, anAditaH.  The Hiranyagarbha and ViraT states are not
knowledge-generating for Ishwara.  They are just cosmic positions in the
states of subtle (dream) and gross (waking).

Sri Kalyan asks:

To add to Rajaram's message - In the upanishads, the Self is described as
the Knower in many places. If it is the mind that knows, then how can the
Self be called as the Knower?


The Self is the Knower as the sAkShi of the operations of the mind-sense
organ combine.  Whether it is ignorance or knowledge that these operations
generate, the sAkShI knows.  'Knowing' by the sAkShI is only a figurative
expression; the sAkShI only illlumines the operations of the mind-sense
organs.  The pramAtA, the knower, who is the one endowed with the mind and
sense organs, operates the sense organs, the pramANas, to know an object,
prameya, in order to gain a knowledge  called pramiti.  The sAkshi just
illumines the entire process.  We have specific verses to say this in the
Panchadashi 10.9:

कर्तारं च क्रियां तद्वद्व्यावृत्तविषयानपि |
स्फोरयेदेकयत्नेन योऽसौ साक्ष्यत्र चिद्वपुः ||९||

  The Self is said to be the knower of the knowledge of the pramAta, the
jiva. There is no infinite regress here as the Self is not admitted to have
another saakShi.


...you ask us to refer to Mandukya upanishad. But only four states are
mentioned in that upanishad. Can you please explain how there are five
states here?

The statement was only about five 'components'  (for jiva and Ishwara) and
not 'states.'  The Reflected consciousness mentioned in the list is common
to all the three states of waking, dream and sleep.


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