[Advaita-l] Naam sankirtan
satisharigela at yahoo.com
Tue Feb 14 23:22:52 CST 2012
Thank you for the clear explanations.
>The brahmaloka can be thought of the highest place in the vyAvahArika
Since it belongs to vyavahArika realm, the brahmaloka must be a physical place.
Or at-least it is a metaphorical way of describing people who have attained to some spiritual heights by upAsana of some devata?
For example: "as achieving its desires by merely willing them, "sankalpAdeva tu tacchruteH"".
There are a minority of shrIvidyA upAsaka-s who experience something like this. I am wondering if attaining to brahmaloka is a usage to describe people who have have reached such a stage in devatopAsana?
>It is in the third stage that the bhakta feels "sa evAham", "I am He". We can call this
>the culmination or pinnacle of bhakti or upAsana, where total
>non-difference from God is experienced.
God? You probably mean some concept called Ishvara.
There are upAsaka-s who have achieved unity with the devata that chose them. However, practically speaking they show no particular interest in advaita or any vedAnta for that matter. They are quite content with their own pA~ncharAtra, or the many shaiva or shAkta traditions they belong to.
For example, attaining unity with a deity is something that is treated very well and is of great importance in various shAkta and kAshmIra shaiva traditions as also in buddhist vajrAyana traditions. There are normally a very small percentage of people who attain this state in all of these traditions. However, they do not talk about advaita or shankara or do not discuss or care about any mahAvAkya-s.
I am not expecting some one should answer this... but only making an observation as part of understanding these things.
From: Anand Hudli <anandhudli at hotmail.com>
To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 10:55 PM
Subject: [Advaita-l] Naam sankirtan
Satish Arigela wrote:
>>MadhusUdana is saying that the VedAnta vAkyas become revealed to the
upAsaka, who has reached the
>>pinnacle of saguNopAsana, in Brahmaloka, not while living here.
>Where is this brahmaloka? Or what exactly is meant by a brahmaloka?
>Some real place? Or some thing metaphorical and not real?
MadhusUdana has referred to "brahmaloka" in his commentary on Gita 12.6 and
"hiraNyagarbhaloka" in his commentary on 8.5. He says the worshiper of
saguNa brahman reaches this loka through "devayAnamArga", the path of Gods.
This is perhaps in accordance with Brahma sutras 4.2.18-19 and 4.3.10.
The brahmaloka can be thought of the highest place in the vyAvahArika
realm. The characteristics of the soul in Brahmaloka are described in
Brahma sutras 4.4.8-22, for example as achieving its desires by merely
willing them, "sankalpAdeva tu tacchruteH".
>As for upAsaka-s some of them even though they have reached the
>pinnacle of saguNopAsana, they might or might not subscribe to the
>view that vedAnta vAkya-s would do something to them. Of- course these
>would be upAsaka-s who do not actually subscribe to advaita or for
>that matter any vedAnta.
Here, MadhusUdana is careful enough to point out that the saguNopAsana has
to be of type "ye mAM sarvayogeshvarANAM IshvaraM sarvajnaM
samastakalyANaguNanilayaM sAkAraM nityayuktAH satatodyuktAH shraddayA
parayA sAttvikyopetAH santa upAsate sadA cintayanti te yuktatamAH " (12.2
comm.), i.e those who constantly worship Him with sAttvika shraddhA.
Elsewhere, (18.66) he outlines the three stages of bhakti. It is in the
third stage that the bhakta feels "sa evAham", "I am He". We can call this
the culmination or pinnacle of bhakti or upAsana, where total
non-difference from God is experienced.
If there are other upAsakas who worship God in some way other than
non-difference, they must be considered to be in lower stages of Bhakti, as
per MadhusUdana. What MadhusUdana is saying in the 12th chapter is that
knowledge of vedAnta is not essential to *ultimately* attain the nirguna
brahman of the upaniShads. saguNopAsana will carry, so to speak, the
upAsaka to that stage.
>So the other question then: 1) Who happens to upAsaka-s who don't
>subscribe to advaita vedAnta? 2) A related question then is, for
>people performing upAsana while not subscribing to any vedAntic
>school: They cannot the reach the pinnacle of saguNopAsana?
Even if they do not subscribe to any vedAntic school, by doing saguNopAsana
in the proper way, they will *ultimately* reach the same goal.
>What does it mean by "reaching the pinnacle of saguNopAsana"? We sure
>have seen upAsaka-s who can converse with their deities... this is
>meant? Or there are upAsaka-s who have become the very devata, are
>these type meant? Surely there exists these kind of upAsaka-s in India
>and elsewhere, who might or might not care about vedAnta.
Please see my comments above.
To unsubscribe or change your options:
For assistance, contact:
listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
More information about the Advaita-l mailing list