[Advaita-l] Are actions essentially meaningless?
rajaramvenk at gmail.com
Thu Dec 27 04:33:50 CST 2012
Madhusudana talks about jnana bhumi. Do these stages map to stable and
On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 8:07 PM, श्रीमल्ललितालालितः <
lalitaalaalitah at lalitaalaalitah.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 3:03 PM, Bhaskar YR
> > But now, I've been told various scopes of prArabdha karma phala, i.e.
> > including jnAni's
> > avidyAlesha, occasional slip, jnAni's rAga-dvesha, its superiority over
> > paramArtha jnAna etc.
> Here is gItA-TIkA of madhusUdana-sarasvatI on shloka 6-31:
> *यावत्तु तस्य बाधितानुवृत्त्या शरीरादिदर्शनमनुवर्त्ते
> तावत्प्रारब्धकर्म्मप्राबल्यात्सर्व्वकर्म्मत्यागेन वा याज्ञवल्क्यादिवत्
> विहितेन कर्म्मणा वाजनकादिवत् प्रतिषिद्धेन कर्म्मणा वा दत्तात्रेयादिवत्
> सर्व्वथा येन केनापि रूपेण वर्त्तमानोऽपि व्यवहरन्नपि स योगी ब्रह्माहमस्मि
> इतिविद्वान् मयि परमात्मनि एवाभेदेन वर्त्तते ।*
> Here he seems to accept that dattAtreya is a GYAnI and he is indulging in
> niShiddha karma due to his prArabdha.
> But, again he says:
> *ब्रह्मविदो निषिद्धकर्म्मणि प्रवर्त्तकयो रागद्वेषयोरसम्भवेन
> निषिद्धकर्म्मासम्भवेऽपि तदङ्गीकृत्य ज्ञानस्तुत्यर्थमिदमुक्तं सर्व्वथा
> वर्त्तमानोऽपि इति हत्वापि स इमाँल्लोकान्न हन्ति न निबध्यते इतिवत् ।*
> that GYAnI can't do niShiddha karma as he has no rAga-dveSha.
> *Q*: Then what does he want to say ? Does he mean that dattAtreya is not a
> GYAnI because he is indulging in niShiddha karma and hence he must have
> rAga-dveSha ? Or he means something else ?
> *A*: We have to accept that *GYAna is of two types: stable and unstable*.
> See what says gItA and *shrIvidyAraNya *:
> *प्रज्ञा तत्त्वज्ञानम् । तद् द्विविधं स्थितम् अस्थितं च इति ।
> *यथा जारेऽनुरक्ताया नार्य्याः सर्व्वेष्वपि व्यवहारेषु बुद्धिर्जारमेव
> ध्यायति प्रमाणप्रमितानि क्रियमाणान्यपि गृहकर्म्माणि सद्य एव विस्मर्य्यन्ते
> ; तथा परवैराग्योपेतस्य योगाभ्यासपाटवेनात्यन्तवशीकृतचित्तस्योत्पन्ने
> तत्त्वज्ञाने बुद्धिर्जारमिव नैरन्तर्य्येण तत्त्वं ध्यायति - तदिदं स्थितं
> प्रज्ञानम् ।
> *उक्तगुणरहितस्य केनापि पुण्यविशेषेण कदाचिदुत्पन्नेऽपि तत्त्वज्ञाने
> गृहकर्म्मवत् तत्रैव तत्त्वं विस्मर्य्यते - तदिदम् अस्थितं प्रज्ञानम् ।*
> Again he says that those with steady GYAna have two states: samAdhi and
> *स्थितप्रज्ञः कालभेदाद् द्विविधः - समाहितो व्युत्थितश्च ।*
> This *sthitapraGYa *is another name of *jIvanmukta*, as is said:
> *स्मृतिषु जीवन्मुक्तः
> स्थितप्रज्ञभगवद्भक्तगुणातीतब्राह्मणातिवर्णाश्रम्यादिनामभिः तत्र तत्र
> व्यवह्रियते ।*
> This *sthitapraGYa *is talked about at many place and he has no niShiddha
> AcharaNa, etc in the state of samAdhi. While not in samAdhi he may be
> engaged in krama-s according to prArabdha without being affected by them.
> All that you read in praise of GYAnI is actully for this type of GYAnI. All
> signs(राद्वेषाभाव etc.) which we find in scriptures are dR^iShTa results,
> and they need something more than GYAna, i.e stability.
> The other type of GYAnI, the one who is not sthitapraGYa, is not practicing
> anything to gain jIvanmukti(or stable GYAna or stability of GYAna), so
> prArabdha will engage him in karma-s and will cause experience of pain.
> *जीवतः पुरुषस्य कर्त्तृत्वभोक्तृत्वसुखदुःखादिलक्षणश्चित्तधर्म्मः
> क्लेशरूपत्वाद्बन्धो भवति ।*
> The word 'जीवतः पुरुषस्य' applies to all except jIvanmukta-s.
> *Q*: Then what we get from unstable GYAna ?
> *A*: Lack of future bodies only, i.e. videhamukti. Tranquility, etc. which
> are signs of other type of mukti, i.e. jIvanmukti, need something more than
> mere GYAna, i.e. stability which is result of manonAsha and vAsanAxaya.
> So, if dattAtreya, etc. are GYAnI and feel affliction from whatever they
> do, they are asthitapraGYA. If they experience and do whatever comes and
> are not affected by them, they are sthitapraGYa or jIvanmukta. However, if
> they are not GYAnI, we have no problem and we do not need to search for any
> And most important, what is their state of mind is only known to them. So,
> we can't decide anything sitting here. Being not omniscient, We are not
> able to read their mind.
> while I agree that our present body, conducive environment etc. are the
> > product of our prArabdha karma phala, I don't quite understand how jnAna
> > the part of this prArabdha karma phala. If that is the case, our jnAna
> > already 'fixed' somewhere in future (if we are already not realized :-))
> > and we would attain it (or may not be attained it forever if it is not
> > there in prArabdha karma phala list !!) whether we do the sAdhana or
> > . Since the prAradbha karma phala is an arrow that already left the bow,
> > we dont (cannot) have to do much about realizing this jnAna which is
> > 'already' fixed and would happen automatically when the time is ripe, is
> > it not :-))
> If we accept that GYAna is prArabdha-phala in the way it is described by
> bhAskar above, there will be no such objection as 'GYAna should rise on
> it's own'.
> Why ?
> Actually, the logic presented to support, doesn't stand in front of *
> shrIvidyAraNya*. See what he says after accepting jIvanmukti as
> *अभिभवसाध्याया जीवन्मुक्तेरपि सुखातिशयरूपत्वेन प्रारब्धफल एवान्तर्भावात् ।
> *तर्हि कर्म्मैव जीवन्मुक्तिं सम्पादयिष्यति मा भूत्पुरुषप्रयत्न इति चेत् ।
> *कृषिवाणिज्यादावपि समानः पर्य्यनुयोगः ।
> *कर्म्मणः स्वयमदृष्टरूपस्य दृष्टसाधनसम्पत्तिमन्तरेण फलजननासमर्थत्वात्
> अपेक्षितः कृष्यादौ पुरुषप्रयत्न इति चेत् ।
> *जीवन्मुक्तावपि समं समाधानम् ।
> *A*: jIvanmukti is also prArabdha-phala as it is immense bliss only.
> *Q*: Then what is the need of any effort(manonAsha, etc.) in this life.
> jIvanmukti will come itself.
> *A*: The above statement is valid in case of other efforts as husbandry,
> commerce, etc. Why do you do them ?
> *Q*: As prArabdha is unseen, it can't generate its results without help.
> So, we do them.
> *A*: Same applies to means of jIvanmukti.
> Just remember that you can't know what your prArabdha is. So, anything may
> be in your prArabdha. Do actions to gain desired things, as you are only
> able to know your desires. Then if you get result, know that it was in
> prArabdha-list. Otherwise it was either not in prArabdha-list or you needed
> to exert more.
> That's the way to think practical. Otherwise, such unclear thinking will
> result in madness and infinite waiting for things to happen.
> This was said accepting that GYAna is a result of prArabdha in the above
> said way.
> But, as prArabdha can only result in experience of pleasure and pain, and
> GYAna(unlike jIvanmukti) is not one of them, it can't be accepted. So, the
> above was said to refute the objection presented only.
> *Q*: Then what about commerce, etc. which were presented as examples.
> *A*: Actually, they were equated with means of jIvanmukti, not jIvanmukti
> itself - is to be remembered. The resultant bliss there is similar to
> resultant jIvanmukti, both being of nature of bliss.
> *Q*: Then why do we hear that vividiShA and advaita-vAsanA is result of
> *A*: To result in specific degree of pleasure prArabdha needs specific
> means - is the solution.
> *Q*: So, in this way GYAna is also result of prArabdha.
> *A*: Yes, so it was accepted as an indirect result and supported.
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