[Advaita-l] idaM na mama - The scientific evidence?

Satish Arigela satisharigela at yahoo.com
Mon Mar 21 01:47:36 CDT 2011

Maybe I should explain in a little more detail.

In the experience of a few mantrin-s that I aware of, the effects of the 
mantra-s,  can definitley be experienced even when there is no faith. This is a 
very important point to note.

The only requirement for the practitioner is that the correct procedure should 
be followed and that rituals be done without fail following thre required 
discipline that comes with it. That is all is required. 

The example that learned tAntrika-s(like for example HH shiva chandra vidyArNava 
from Bengal) is that of a poison. Just like one is not required to beleive that 
death comes by drinking poison, for death to occur, likewise no faith is 
required to experience the effects of a mantra.

This can be verified by anyone if one approaches mantra shAstra without any 
preconceived notions.
But in general, 99.99% of those im India that take up mantra-s already have 
beleief and so it becomes indistinguishable.

If one has faith in it, I do not know if it counts as an added advantage.. but 
from the tAntrika's point of view and in the anubhava of learned & accomplished 
mantrins, no faith is required.

I stand by the earlier assertment on not requiring faith based on opinions of 
learned tAntrika-s who for me are non-different from shiva and also from 

So then what about the statement of yama: I am unsure what to say about it but 
this certainly is not the position of those who are learned in tantra-s or 
mantra-shAstra. It is possible that the parable applies to only some kind of 
aspirants? That is just a wild guess and my personal opinion so it need not be 
taken seriously..But if time permits i will certainly write about this.

But consider this: Some of the tAntrIka mantra-s used by Hindu-s, were 
appropriated at later times by the bauddha-s and they used those mantra-s with a 
different name.

For example: Some very early kaumAra mantra-s were actually adopted  by the 
buddhists, the mantra-s were used as it is, but the devata is given a similar 
sounding name and they incorporated the devata into their theology. Why is this 
relevant for the discussion?

The example was given, to show that, being bauddha-s they would be definitley 
opposed to worship of Hindu devata-s and they will definitely not have faith in 
Hindu devata-s. This is clear if we read bauddha literature. But they 
appropriated the mantra-s along with their prayoga vidhi-s and use them with a 
different name. What does this tell us?

Regarding the verse on viShNu there is nothing to disagree. Even if the sound is 
not uttered properly but if the sphoTa is perceived clearly then the result is 
the same.


From: V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
To: Satish Arigela <satisharigela at yahoo.com>; A discussion group for Advaita 
Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Sent: Mon, March 21, 2011 11:42:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] idaM na mama - The scientific evidence?

On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 10:21 AM, Satish Arigela <satisharigela at yahoo.com> 

>One of the other important difference is that, for a mantra to work,you do not 
>need belief while a prayer without belief is like talking to a wall.

(underlined by me so as to relate it to a  parable said by Jagadguru  Sri 
Abhinava VidyAtIrtha Mahaswamigal of Sringeri:)

// Once, most of India’s inhabitants were committing many
sinful acts and going to hell. Ishwara, out of compassion, taught
them the sacred SrI-rudra-mantra to enable all to escape the
tortures of hell. Everyone began bathing in holy rivers and
worshiping Lord Shiva through it.

Meanwhile, Yama, the god of death, began to worry.
“Nowadays nobody comes to hell. What is the use of my being
the king of hell without any person to rule over?” he lamented.
He went to Lord BrahmA and complained, “I have no subjects.
So, I would like to retire.” Lord BrahmA replied, “It is true that
people perform srI-rudra-japa and thereby escape from your
clutches. However, I will give you two messengers, ashraddhA
(absence of faith) and durmedhA (perverted thinking). On
account of these, people will feel that srI-rudra-japa is not as
efficacious as it is said to be. So, they will not do it properly.
Obviously, they will not be liberated from sin.” 

The story reveals that it is not enough to merely chant a mantra. Faith and 
proper attitude are also necessary. If these are there, the full fruit of the 
chanting will accrue to the chanter.//

Quoted from 'Exalting Elucidations' published by Sri VidyAtIrtha Foundation, 

There is also another verse said by the above Acharya:

मूर्खो वदति विष्णाय बुधो वदति विष्णवे।
उभयोः सदृशं पुण्यं भावग्राही जनार्दनः ॥

The unlettered one, while praying says: 'viShNAya' while the correct form of the 
word is 'viShNave' which however the learned man utters.  Both get the same 
merit for the Lord Janardana looks for the intent, the sincerity of the person.  

This, of course, is not to belittle the importance of correct pronunciation and 
intonation of words or mantras.  The Haridasa-s, NayanmArs and Azhwars were very 
great bhakta-s who used their native language and not Sanskrit essentially to 
express their devotion to the Lord. 





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