[Advaita-l] (Advaita) Bhakti vs. Jnana

Rajaram Venkataramani rajaramvenk at gmail.com
Sun Jul 31 01:27:55 CDT 2011

Sri V Subrahmanian: Actually even Bhakti, if it is a means to final
beatitude, can deliver it only by generating in the bhakta's mind the
'bhagavat tattva jnanam'.  And that will encompass everything in creation,
including the jiva's tattva.

RV: I agree. Ultimately, one has to become Brahman through through profound
meditation in a purified mind or one with Bhagavan as we see in the lives of
illustrious devotees who merge in to their deity. In both cases, it is
Ishvara Anugraha though the approach seems to be different but converges at
the final beautification when atma jnanam, brahma jnanam or bhagavat jnanam
is revealed and one becomes that or realizes that. This ultimate truth is
advaya jnanam and one cannot compromise sarvam khalv idam brahman and
vasudevam sarvam iti. As you rightly pointed out, the ultimate is pure
intelligence or consciousness.

On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 5:18 AM, Ramesh Krishnamurthy <rkmurthy at gmail.com>wrote:

> On 30 July 2011 23:16, Rajaram Venkataramani <rajaramvenk at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Apotheosis or final
> > beautication in the form of atma jnana is not attained only through
> > sravana,
> > manana and nidhidhyasana is my understanding. Pl. correct me if I am
> wrong.
> >
> That's the basic misunderstanding I have been trying to point out all
> along.
> The cause of bandha is avidyA and so the solution is j~nAna. j~nAna
> requires
> a pramANa which in this case is in the form of the vedAnta shAstra alone
> (specifically the mahAvAkya). So shravaNa is unavoidable.

RV: I agree that jnana is the anti-dote to ajnana, the root cause of
problem. But if one does not have the sankhya buddhi for profound meditation
on nirguna brahman but has the yoga buddhi to be intensely devoted to his
deity, then the deity becomes the swift deliverer by generating this tattva
jnanam. This is what Madhusudana says and would like to know the traditional

Not only is j~nAna (obtained through the mahAvAkya) the sole direct means to
mukti, nothing other than this j~nAna is required for mukti.

RV: I agree because light alone is required to remove darkness. But someone
has to open the windows. The guru is prohibited by the lord (18.67) from
giving instruction to even otherwise qualified candidates if does not render
service in the mood of devotion. So, bhakti is an essential pre-condition
even for one with sankhya buddhi.

Well, chittashuddhi is actually essential for the pramANa to operate, and
karmayoga in some form is the means to obtain chittashuddhi. In fact, all
opinions that I have encountered so far (among traditional AchArya-s)
indicate that karmayoga (of which there are many varieties) is the only
means to obtain chittashuddhi.

RV: What are the different types?

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